Performance issues

[Tetsu0san]

Hi all

I have a 200Tdi Defender (original engine) and I am having a few little issues with performance. I know that these sort of issues have been posted before, but I just want to ask a few questions that I don't think have been answered elsewhere.

As a bit of a background, this is a K reg 90 with its original 200Tdi engine with just over 87K on the clock. It was parked up about 3 years ago, I bought it just over a year ago and welded the chassis, got an MOT on it and started to drive it. I have only done about 600 miles on it since I had it, and that is the sum total of the mileage for the past 3 years.

The first problem I noticed was that it seemed to have very little power. When I MOT'd it, it just didn't seem like it would pull you out of bed. There was a bit of white smoke (unburned fuel?) from the exhaust, and if you revved hard and kept it there and then let off the throttle it would sometimes stall.

It also seemed to top out on the revs, and if you held it there long enough it would seem to free up and pull a bit more. The more I drove it the less it did this until it was gone altogether. It still didn't have the pull before the turbo kicks in that I would expect to feel, but as long as you keep the revs up reasonably high it was OK. I took it back to the bloke I bought it from and he was suprised that it wasn't revving like it used to. It sort of seemed that the pump was retarted as there was a bit of a delay when you blipped the throttle. I know it's not meant to be a sports car, but my 300Tdi picked up better after I advanced the pump a little, but I don't think I should have to advance the pump on an engine that has done under half of what my 300Tdi had done. I stripped the timing chest off and had a look and it all seemed OK, it has not long had a cam belt change anyway.

I had not driven the 90 for about 10 days and when I took it out today and the problem returned. Topping out on the revs and just not pulling 100%. It seems to idle OK, starts really easily, not breathing at all, the turbo has no lateral movement in the turbine bit. I fitted a turbo guage about 3 weeks ago to monitor it and today the boost only got up to about 0.7, whereas it was getting up to 0.9 before. I also didn't realise quite how underpowered before the turbo kicks in until I drove a TD 90 the other week. Although this isn't fast it seems to pull really strong, regardless of the revs.

Basically my question is about what this could be. I looked in the fuel tank (as I had a fuel starvation problem on my old 300Tdi Disco) and I expected to see a filter on the pickup, but it is just a tube. I am 99% sure there is no sedimenter bowl, and I changed the fuel filter when I serviced it only 600 miles ago. If there was carp in the fuel tank, could this have been picked up and pushed into the lift pump and this could cause my symptoms? Is there meant to be a filter on the pickup? How easily should it be to move the wastegate? Should you be able to move it by hand easily? Could a cheap fuel filter cause the same problems?

Suggestions?

Sorry for the essay, but I wanted to give as much information as possible.

[paulnb57]

In my experience there is very little difference in performance between a 200 and 300..........

White smoke is usually an indication of air or not enough fuel, too much fuel would give black smoke, burning engine oil would give blue smoke.

Start with simple things, crack the bleed nipple on the top of the injector pump, while its running a) to see if there is any air in the system (bubbles from the bleed nipple), and b) to see if the fuel pump is OK. I wouldnt be surprised if the fuel pump was tired.

Check the fuel filter in the engine bay - in fact replace it they are cheap enough...........

I had a very similar problem when I put a non turbo 300 into a Series 1 - ticked over OK but started with white smoke, wouldnt pull, sometimes spluttered to a stop. Turned out to be water in the fuel tank being picked up and pulled through.

Work methodically and you will find the problem eventually. Also check the turbo hoses internally to see if one is collapsing

Good Luck!!

Paul

[paulnb57]

Just re-read your post - no there is no filter on the fuel pickup pipe

You say turbo pressure is down on a previous reading - it could be that a turbo hose is collapsing internally, sometimes they delaminate.....as far as I know the wastegate linkage should move quite freely - soak the linkage in WD40 or similar............

[Les Brock]

Its not the diesel bug, clogging up/gone up the pick up is it ?

I know my Discovery when it had not been used for about 18 months had what can only be described as "snot" clogging up the pick up it had similar syptoms, I checked everything before checking this....

[kiwi_110]

The beauty of diesels is that they are essentialy simple beasts. They just need clean fuel at the right time and an unrestricted airflow. Check the function of your injector pump and injectors, and replace your fuel and air filters. You MUST have a diesel fuel filter. If not in the tank, then on the chassis between the tank and the engine bay, or in the engine bay before the injector pump.

Ray.

[landy V8]

sought of similar on my 110 200tdi,but different.

mine would smoke like hell if you put your foot down but not really pick up on speed very well.then it became very difficult to start first time of the day.worked that out to be the lift pump so changed that and the filter,then blew through all the lines off the compressor.after doing all that it was back to starting as usual(bar a tired starter).

after reading through the tuning methods on here i thought i'd have a look at mine.it looked to me like someone had already had a go at this as the cap on the top of the pump had been knocked off.

as more smoke usually equals too much fuel i had a look at the Turbo to find it was still set as standard.The wastegate was free and working but whoever had altered the pump had not done anything with the turbo.i undid the actuator rod then screwed it up the way up(you'll need molegrips to hold it).

the difference is a lot less smoke and the pickup is better.

hope this helps somewhat!!!

Ralph

[Tetsu0san]

There is a fuel filter in the engine bay, that is not the filter I was talking about. I meant is there a sedimentor bowl somewhere in the pipework and should there be a filter on the pickup pipe in the fuel tank. My Disco didn't have a filter on the pickup either, but there was a sedimenter bowl.

The wastegate is very stiff to push by hand, almost impossible. Perhaps this is the issue? I will spray it with oodles of WD40 later, and I will also blow out the fuel pipes when I get a chance.

One of the intercooler hoses is a little soft too, I was thinking of replacing them all with silicon hoses anyway. Although the problem with the turbo seems to be that it just revs, stops and then eventually revs up higher, like pushing your head through a collar on a tight jumper. There is resitance but eventually if goes through. I honestly couldn't think of a better desciption for it.

[reb78]

I'd have thought a duff lift pump is a likely cuplrit here? That presumes its all serviced, clean filters, turbo hoses ok and timing is set correctly.

[Tetsu0san]

Serviced, clean filters, timing seems OK.

I was thinking this too, but wanted to rule out everything else before I buy a lift pump.

[simonb]

Have you checked throttle cable?

With engine off, and pedal to floor, does lever on injection pump move to the stop on the housing?

[reb78]

Have you checked throttle cable?

With engine off, and pedal to floor, does lever on injection pump move to the stop on the housing?

Yes. check this too.

Lift pumps are fairly cheap. Delphi ones on ebay go for about £25. You can add at least £100 to that if you go to a dealer and i think they sell delphi in a LR box!

[pigster]

my bet for low performance and stalling would be the timing belt is on wrong. - - only by a tooth mind - yes it will still start and run like a dog - been there done that myself.

try other bits mind first - easy to do the other bits timing belt will take a little longer.

[Tetsu0san]

I don't think the timing belt is out, although I won't rule this out totally. My mate who is a mechanic also said it seemed like a timing belt issue, but in checking the belt it looked as if it was 1/2 a tooth out at the most on the cam pulley.

This picture was taken at TDC (checked on the rocker and through the belhousing and a pin through the pump hole). The angle of the picture is also not great as I had left the radiator in when I removed the timing chest.

But this wouldn't give the rev topping out and then carrying on problem (I don't think). Also people seem to advise that as long as the pump and the crank are in time then the cam pulley can be a little out and not give any problems. And it doesn't run rough. I had a Scenic where the garage had put the timing belt on one tooth out and that sounded rough. This actually sounds really nice.

Haven't checked the throttle cable, no. But the laggy-ness happens when you are under the bonnet pulling the throttle arm. I will check the cable tomorrow though.

Cheers for the suggestions though, keep them coming!

[discomikey]

id put it down to being a sticky boost wastegate diaphragm, as its been stood for a long time, if the diaphragm is sticky then it wont boost fully, and you wont get the full power of the vehicle, also it will be more sluggish as you said at low revs. they can free themselves off with regular use.

i would also put a trailer on the back and take it for a good run, with some hills to work it. can help to free up the wastegate and clear the injectors out a bit. when i put a decent load on my series after putting a 200TDI in it, it definately benefitted as it seemed to have that little bit more torque and seemed to run more smoothly and rattle slightly less.

[saxosportsaxo]

I would have a look at the timing then do a valve clearance check.... the 200 tdi does run rough if the valves dont have there clearance!

[Tetsu0san]

I would have a look at the timing then do a valve clearance check.... the 200 tdi does run rough if the valves dont have there clearance!

Forgot to mention that I did the valve clearances just after checking the timing belt.

As an update, I drove it again today and it is better than yesterday, so I think that something must be sticking and freeing up with use. The wastegate seems the obvious thing to check, but would this cause the slugishness at low revs too?

[reb78]

Have a look in the international forum. There's a thread currently there that might give you some other ideas....Stuck boost pin was the culprit there. I wouldn't have thought that was common though, but it would also reproduce some of your symptoms.