Dollywobber Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I know this is a VERY hot topic, but having some odd issues trying to bleed the brakes on my RRC. I have not used a pressure bleeder, so you might well all tell me that's where I'm going wrong, but I'd like to run it past you anyway. With the system correctly depressurised, cracking a rear caliper (more so the nearside) and pressing the brake pedal results in a very small amount of fluid coming out. Pedal remains hard. Offside rear produces a bit more fluid. ABS pump very, very little - some will seep out if you open the nipple fully. The pump is now running continuously and is very noisy - in a 'full of air' kind of way. Brakes work well regardless but obviously I'm not going to go for a drive with a continuously running pump. Opening the pump nipple with the pump running results in the same gradual trickle of fluid - it doesn't come out with enough force to go down a tube if connecting up a bleeder. Is this normal if not using a pressure bleeder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_Star Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 No idea if that's normal if you've not followed the correct procedure What I can tell you from my own experience is that the Wabco ABS system is VERY pernickety about being bled, hence the detailed procedure in the manual. Follow it to the letter, using a pressure bleeder Gunsons Ezi Bleedand it'll likely be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I'm not sure if I ever tried it without the pressure bleeder - I'm pretty certain I was warned beforehand that it was almost impossible to bleed this system properly without one. I'd try again using a pressure bleeder before you decide you've got a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p76rangie Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 The pump is the pressure bleeder. They are very simple to bleed, just follow the procedure set out in the RAVE CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 They are very simple to bleed, I beg to differ! 4 hours trying to get a pedal... that was WITH a pressure bleeder. The original workshop manual states you need a pressure bleeder, and the process is long and drawn out.... hardly simple compared to say, a Series III with one circuit. I did get a pedal after a very short drive, for some reason this fixed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p76rangie Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I beg to differ! 4 hours trying to get a pedal... that was WITH a pressure bleeder. The original workshop manual states you need a pressure bleeder, and the process is long and drawn out.... hardly simple compared to say, a Series III with one circuit. Are you talking about an ABS system? A pressure bleeder is not specified or required for an ABS system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Yes, ABS, according to the workshop manual it is required, and I had no success without a pressure bleeder at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p76rangie Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Yes, ABS, according to the workshop manual it is required, and I had no success without a pressure bleeder at all. I did double check the RAVE CD and there is no mention of a pressure bleeder except for getting the fluid into the reservoir more easily. I have bleed brakes on non-ABS Rangies and Series Landrovers many times over the last couple of decades and found my current ABS Classic the easiest of the them all to bleed as you don't have to pump brakes or anything like that. You just have to turn the ignition on and hold the brake pedal down and the ABS pump just pushes the fluid out whatever nipple you have undone at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I had my RRC's brakes bled at the local specialist after trying unsuccessfully to bleed the system myself after rebuilding the callipers. They bled the callipers but not the compressor, accumulator or valve block, saying they never cause any problems. Since then, the compressor has taken a long time to charge the accumulator on each start - long enough for the self-test to fail, leaving the brake warning light, ETC and ABS lights on the dash illuminated. Once the pump stops, stopping and restarting the engine clears the lights. I have bled those under-bonnet areas as per the manual and it has helped, but I think that not including the calliper sin the sequence has prevented it from being fully successful (either that, or the pump or pressure switch may be failing). I only have a Haynes book of lies, but it clearly requires the use of a pressure bleeder. It also requires an assistant to hold the pedal pressed down while certain operations are carried out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollywobber Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 Thanks folks. Some useful input. I'll let you know how I get on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Just a tip? I replaced the brake pipes on the rear axle on my Soft Dash LSE with ABS. I managed to do it without bleeding the brakes! Before removing the pipes I cracked open the nipple on the caliper. I then removed one pipe and replaced it by connecting it at the diff end first, allowing the fluid to pass through the pipe before connecting the other end to the caliper. I then allowed the fluid to leak out the nipple before tightening it. I then repeated it on the other side and finally topped up the resevoir. When I restarted the car the brakes were fine, with no air in them at all. I can't gaurantee this will work all the time, but it worked for me. The only disadvantage was that it left a large amount of brake fluid on the floor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range Rover Blues Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I've swapped the rear callipers on an ABS car without a problem, doing the whole car is more difficult but if you are prepared to waste a bit of fluid then it can be done succesfully. Last year I swapped the whole systme on an ABS softie, we ran throught the procedure carefully and it was ok afterwards. This one also seemed to get better after it was driven though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Yep, rear brakes are fine in my experience, but when you have an empty system our have disturbed the front lines it can be a nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollywobber Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 Odd. It definitely went a bit wrong after I'd done the rear caliper. I was pretty sure I hadn't let the fluid drop down below the critical level, yet still got the noisy pump with air in the system. I know there's air because when I let the fluid dribble out from the pump bleed nipple, there are bubbles in it. A light touch on the brake pedal makes the pump much quieter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
task Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 How I enjoy reading this, having entirely stripped my system down and rebuilt it with all new lines/calipers, should be a laugh when I get some power into it ans try to bleed the system. I remember doing this on my old 1991 and had forgotten how much of a pig it can be at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollywobber Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 I've been busy putting my 2CV's engine together, so someone else has had a look at this now. Seems the pump was iffy - it was certainly making one heck of a noise. New pump fitted and it seems to be bleeding up properly, and the pump is back to cutting out swiftly again (ie runs for about 5 seconds after a few prods of the brake pedal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I've been busy putting my 2CV's engine together, so someone else has had a look at this now. Seems the pump was iffy - it was certainly making one heck of a noise. New pump fitted and it seems to be bleeding up properly, and the pump is back to cutting out swiftly again (ie runs for about 5 seconds after a few prods of the brake pedal). I suspect my pump may be worn out too after 16 years and 180,000 miles! How much did your pump cost and what brand was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 One tip I heard was to fit the later P38a pump and sphere as they are interchangeable, an all in one unit and more reliable -I've not done this but would look at it if I ever need another one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollywobber Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 I didn't actually fit the pump and haven't seen the car yet, but I understand that it's the same as that used on the LSE, so still with separate accumulator. Cost me £75 - which doesn't seem bad at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I have had partial success rebleeding the brakes (I have been suffering an excessive pump run time to pressurise the accumulator, resulting in the ABS/ETC self-test failing). The procedure is to: Depressurise the system by pumping the pedal 30 times, leaving it for one minute and then pumping four more times; Connect a filled pressure bleeding kit tot he reservoir; Bleed the four front lower nipples, outboard ones first then inboard; Switch on the ignition and bleed the pump; With the pump running, bleed the accumulator; With the pump running, bleed each of the two nipples on the top right side of the main hydraulic unit; Recycle the ignition switch to bleed the master cylinder (no nipple) until the pump stops; Bleed the rear callipers with the pump running; Bleed the front calliper upper nipples with the pump running. Then test the system - the pump should stop within 45 seconds (but if tested shortly after bleeding will stop quickly as the system is already still pressurised). I have found the lights normally extinguish now after a pressurising period on a cold start, but not every time. My brake pads are slightly worn, so I'm going to try again with the pistons pushed and jammed back in their callipers to ensure there are no possible air gaps in the callipers and allow a long period of bubble-free fluid flow from each nipple just in case any air is trapped at the top end of the system, masked by the bottom end being bubble-free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnar-l322 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 You just have to turn the ignition on and hold the brake pedal down and the ABS pump just pushes the fluid out whatever nipple you have undone at the time. Yes that worked perfectly. About the shortest and most perfect description I have seen. No pressure bleeding kits needed. I got myself two bleeding bottles with one way valve. their plastic hoses connected to the bleeding nipple in question and a #11 ring spanner around the hose for turning the bleed nipple. Then press pedal to have the ABS pressure bleed fluid into the bottle. Replenish fresh fluid to the reservoir when it goes too low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnar-l322 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 One tip I heard was to fit the later P38a pump and sphere as they are interchangeable, an all in one unit and more reliable -I've not done this but would look at it if I ever need another one Good hint. I was wondering about that but it makes sense. Only one line needs to go to the valve block and this pump/accumulator combo could come from a P38. Or I assume a late Jaguar XJ40/Daimler or X300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidL Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 We (as in local garage) are having an issue here. Replaced a section of brake pipe and one rear caliper bleeds fine but the other just won't. Pipes are clear but nothing comes through from the abs system so no pressure in that side and no rear brake. Any ideas what is going wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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