Jump to content

109 CSW Roll cage / sill bars build thread


Recommended Posts

Hi DD, I have a 14" one of those, can't remember the make, its not bad but doesn't really do an engineers square cut. If you do ever need a good cut doing give me a shout, I have access to a mec brown that will do a nice square cut on 100 x 100 and at angles upto 45 degrees on smaller stuff.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I haven't used to cut stuff 'that' big, I've struggled to cut stuff square with mine too, but I guess spending some time with the square is the answer

It cuts ok on 50x50.

it's not that much of a detriment that they're not cut square, if i made stuff square it probably wouln't fit, it is landrover!

I'm assuming your using the original 'universal' blade the saw came with, it won't last long just cutting steel. I replaced mine with a mild steel specific blade, it's for the Rage 230mm circular saw but the hole diameter is the same and the RPM is pretty close too. Being 25mm smaller means it has a reduced capacity but I can still cut 75mm box comfortably and it cuts straighter than the universal blade.

Its always nice to see a DD fabrication thread, great attention to detail as usual, excellent work.

I am still on the universal blade, i really only bought it to do mitre cuts in 76mm stainless tube for lobster backing exhausts up.

I have use of a addison band master if i need it. but the reality is that 2 mins with a sanding pad and a square and its done

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

swapsies?

Sure - I'll swap for enough money to build another one :P

Looking good Dan, you'll have to let me know which weekend you want to attack the cage.

Now I can't decide what colour to paint the sills, black or red, hmmm :unsure:

Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my next challenges is to get the cage through the alpine lights.

You don't set yourself particularly tough challenges do you? I mean, how hard can it be to get a metal tube through a bit of 30 year old glass.....:P :P.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't set yourself particularly tough challenges do you? I mean, how hard can it be to get a metal tube through a bit of 30 year old glass.....:P :P.

33 year old curved glass!!

Its one of the peculiaritys of working under fridges instruction, i've been banned from any mods that make it look more like a defender.

I think i'm going to have to make some pollycarbonate alpine lights then sandwich the cage through them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

can you explain the cage? why go through the alpine lights?

As I sort of rambled on about in the planning thread linked at the top - I don't want it to end up like a climbing frame, so the plan is for a hoop & stays inside, just behind the rear seats, but the issue is that the alpine lights are exactly where you'd want to run a tube through to tie that to the roof bars. It's a tricksy one, you're either putting a tube through glass, going up through the double-skinned safari roof, or moving the joint further forward/back somehow which either means a load more tube, or a compromise on the strength. I suppose there's the SteveB route of out through the side panel.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds incredibly complicated and leaky to me; I would swap the roof for a plain one and do the usual spreaderplate bolt through thing. Hell, you could even loose 65 mm in height if you fancy it...

Daan

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sounds incredibly complicated and leaky to me

Isn't that the definition of a 109 csw body?

Daan, the door gaps on ju's 109 have to be seen to be believed, nothing i could do to the roof would be of great detriment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at where it's got to go (the back of the alpine light) I reckon a small infill piece could be made for the cage to bolt through, then shorter bits of glass/perspex put back in to retain the originality.

Door gaps are on the to-do list - well, making a new set of doors in fact.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You could replace with a bit of polished aluminium, it would still stand out as being a bit different and would look a bit like a window from a distance. I doubt you would be able to clamp the plastic without cracking, if you did manage to the vibration would get it over time, especially perspex. I think you might get too much body to cage movement just to core through it & get a waterproof seal - not that i'm implying that your body isn't rigid :D Polycarbonate would stand up to it better.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Got the rear hoop bent up eventually, bloody pain in the arse making it Mildly miffed up and out of sqare so it fits tight in the back of the 109.

155971998_photobucket_22314_.jpg

Rear stays and some mounting feet next, then i can take the fuel tank out and make the chassis mounts. :rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Got the rear hoop bent up eventually, bloody pain in the arse making it Mildly miffed up and out of sqare so it fits tight in the back of the 109.

155971998_photobucket_22314_.jpg

Rear stays and some mounting feet next, then i can take the fuel tank out and make the chassis mounts. :rolleyes:

Dan, questions for you? Regarding your main hoop, why does everyone put an extra bend in the hoop, the ones nearest the floor are the one's I mean, I understand the need to clear the wheel box's, does the main hoop haveto join the mounting plates At 90 degrees? Could the tube not just connect to the plates at an angle? I realise the waist height bends may need to be a little higher, but surely that would be preferable to having two bends in a 'Z' shape in a vertical tube designed to take compression forces, it just looks so wrong to me. I realise that this is the accepted design of a traditional LR cage and the only reason I bring this up in your thread is that your picture above display's perfectly what I mean, no reflection on you or your very high standard of work, more because of your experience I ask these questions.

Secondly I'm just a builder, but to put that into context, say on a job I had to take a wall out and put a steel in to support the structure above would I put a temporary support in the shape of a Z or S while the demolition and fitment of the steel took place, no of course not, but if I did would a 45 degree strut help, well yes a little bit, but only in transfering the downward force into sideways force.

I understand the need for the main hoop to come down to the main chassis rail so there needs to be a bend in the vertical but wouldn't a single bend be preferable? To me, coming down to the base plate at an angle and then having the X brace intersect the hoop at the base plase and have the 'X' welded to the Base plate as well, you could even put another tube from the centre of the 'X' to the waist bend of the hoop, a sort of smaller diameter tube or box 'tension' strut. The main hoop would the become mini triangle then.

This isn't by any means the first hoop that has made me think this, just as as said above the picture just demonstrate's so well.

So what do you think?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Proper engineering as usual. With regards to taking the tank out, I suppose you are landing the stays on the chassisrails? In this case, the back becomes very cluttered with tubes. For this reason, I kept them wide and landed straight on the (boxed in) rear crossmember. This opened up loads of space in the back. Not MSA approved, but strength wise very little in it and a lot more usefull.

Just my 2p...

Daan

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dan, questions for you? Regarding your main hoop, why does everyone put an extra bend in the hoop, the ones nearest the floor are the one's I mean, ...

I've wondered that in the past.

I've put it down to presenting a tube section that fitted within the 3" width of the top of chassis rails.

Coming in at an angle could present a slash cut on the tube that was wider then the plate that welds to the top of the chassis. Also it would reduce the space in the well between the ends of the hoop but that could be a minor issue.

Another point could be that the floor of the well is some distance above the chassis so aiming to come in on just one bend would require the hoop to pass theouh a section of the wheel box or approach from a bend very high up to give a shallower angle. Easier to to add the extra bend in and drop to the chassis vertically with a round section.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Proper engineering as usual. With regards to taking the tank out, I suppose you are landing the stays on the chassisrails? In this case, the back becomes very cluttered with tubes. For this reason, I kept them wide and landed straight on the (boxed in) rear crossmember. This opened up loads of space in the back. Not MSA approved, but strength wise very little in it and a lot more usefull.

Just my 2p...

Daan

I did exactly the same for exactly the same reasons on my 90. Well worth considering IMHO, especially as the vehicle is destined for far flung places where easy access to the rear load space is going to be important (I would suggest ;) )

Picture half way down this post

Might need to check clearance in the wheel arch though with the tyres fridge runs!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed looking good.

Regarding the questions about design, I did it this way on my 80" to avoid that "usual" look with many bends:

post-9137-0-04142000-1313264250_thumb.jpg

Connection to the frame:

post-9137-0-77450300-1313264275_thumb.jpg

And yes I know the design of a series one is different to other landies, but it could be done similarly on other models.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dan, questions for you? Regarding your main hoop, why does everyone put an extra bend in the hoop, the ones nearest the floor are the one's I mean, I understand the need to clear the wheel box's, does the main hoop haveto join the mounting plates At 90 degrees? Could the tube not just connect to the plates at an angle? I realise the waist height bends may need to be a little higher, but surely that would be preferable to having two bends in a 'Z' shape in a vertical tube designed to take compression forces, it just looks so wrong to me. I realise that this is the accepted design of a traditional LR cage and the only reason I bring this up in your thread is that your picture above display's perfectly what I mean, no reflection on you or your very high standard of work, more because of your experience I ask these questions.

So what do you think?

In order to clear the wheel boxes you have to put the second bend in, other wise with a single bend the bend would have to start very high up the hoop

something like this

edit1.jpg

the main hoop does not have to join the chassis at 90 degrees, in the past i have cut through the wheel boxes to get around this problem. on most other stuff i do i just have a single bend in the hoop, if i have more artistic freedom :ph34r:;) I'd put a h/d crossmember in the chassis and land the rear hoop on it inside the chassis rails.

Here's a good illustration of where a single bend rear hoop bi-sects the wheel boxes.

lewiss90005.jpg

Whilst i agree that the double bend is weaker in compression, it's kind of a necessary evil, and with cross in the rear hoop those bend are effectivly taken out of compression.

On the 109 the double bend is more accentuated than it could have been because i've tried to get the tube very close to the body cappings, because part of the plan is to tag the cage into the body in as many places as possible to make the car more rigid,

This is where i intend to tag the hoop into the body.

edit2.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Proper engineering as usual. With regards to taking the tank out, I suppose you are landing the stays on the chassisrails? In this case, the back becomes very cluttered with tubes. For this reason, I kept them wide and landed straight on the (boxed in) rear crossmember. This opened up loads of space in the back. Not MSA approved, but strength wise very little in it and a lot more usefull.

Just my 2p...

Daan

I did exactly the same for exactly the same reasons on my 90. Well worth considering IMHO, especially as the vehicle is destined for far flung places where easy access to the rear load space is going to be important (I would suggest ;) )

Picture half way down this post

Might need to check clearance in the wheel arch though with the tyres fridge runs!

I had considered this for the 109 but;

I am going to be compromising the strength of the cage over the main part of the cab, so the rear hoop and stays are going to be the only properley triangulated (comp spec) part of the structure so i'd like to maximise the strength in them.

also spare tyre is mounted inside on the o/s wheel box, this makes use of quite a lot of dead space so i quite like it there.

and in the n/s wheel box locker there is the diesel tank for the eberspacher heater.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy