imspanners Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I would have thought if the coil was open circuit both sparks would be affected, sounds like a short to earth on that HT connector. The coil is triggered just the same as a Series coil. By switching the coil off the spark is generated, however the ECU is not triggering the coil properly hence the weak spark. If you leave either of the affected plug leads off, you'll probably find the car actually runs better, as the spark is only beiing distributed to one spark plug instead of half a spark to 2 plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 The coil is triggered just the same as a Series coil. By switching the coil off the spark is generated, however the ECU is not triggering the coil properly hence the weak spark. If you leave either of the affected plug leads off, you'll probably find the car actually runs better, as the spark is only beiing distributed to one spark plug instead of half a spark to 2 plugs. Not sure if this'll work - I found with the EDIS coil packs on the rangie that you only got a decent spark if both plugs where fitted and properly grounded. I'd guess the Fiat version is fundamentally the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 gods teeth, trying to tidy my little workshop outside at present with the door open and though it was a bit cold, so played with the thermostat by the ddor of the shed and the heating kicked in at about 10 C think I'll dig a jumper out before I go finish the painting on my exhaust system <brrrrrgh> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Ha! What are you moaning about - my outside thermometer is reading a mere 2.6 deg at the moment Mind you it is winter I suppose Look on the bright side you could be at Rothera presently showing -14.6 deg through a slightly snow encrusted webcam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 ooh that is cold bit weird here at the moment as only a few days ago I was saying to my dad that the birds seem to have disappeared to the cost, and we nowgot blustery wind and drizzle, but then that is a typical British summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MJG Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 gods teeth, trying to tidy my little workshop outside at present with the door open and though it was a bit cold, so played with the thermostat by the ddor of the shed and the heating kicked in at about 10 C think I'll dig a jumper out before I go finish the painting on my exhaust system <brrrrrgh> Sorry folks this is all my fault - we've just booked a week (9th Sept) on the Norfolk Broads on the strength of the good weather we've been having - it'll be like this now untill we come back......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 may you be infested with a thousand flee's kids go back to school about then, so the sun will come back out again, so your be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 Well they made it They arrived in Ulan Bator on Friday (11th), finishing joint 6th (they were in a convoy of four vehicles) , and the panda has already gone off to a new life Matt is currently trying to get tickets and the necessary visas to return as far as Moscow on the Trans Siberian Express, after Moscow he is unsure how he will get back - but he says it will be easy from there as he's almost home ! He has loads of photos and if anyone is interested will tell more on his return (if he ever makes it ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Well done to the boys & top marks to the little Fiat for getting them to the finish safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Sure, post the pics. I would love to see them. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 Sure, post the pics. I would love to see them The way he's planning to come back Les. that will probably be some time in October Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I checked today and it is indeed the Punto that suffers with the ECU failing when a coil pack fails ……….. Fiat do an exchange ECU but it needs to be programmed ………….. To save you the cost of the fiat stealer doing it, I might be able to get hold of the instructions as IIRC you can do it all manually…………… You have to set the immobiliser codes and also teach the ecu some engine parameters …… I’ll post when I have the document in my mitts. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 ok i have a lap top , which is great and was really usefull around aus, as it has the connect anywhere stuff on it (cheers moglite) But it only has a 60gig hard drive. Which is fine for a laptop but as my wife took 35gig of pics on the trip plus our other stuff mean't we had 3gig of space left and were running out of space. We have allready got about 100 + cds and loads of DVD's of stuff and pics that became a pain to work your way thought to see what pic you wanted. My wife is an amature photographer, she wants to access the pics easly as oposed to going though loads and loads of cd's and DVD's. So we needed more space. did not want to spend a fortune on a new pc so came up with an idea. Bought a docking station for the laptop, then a flat sceen , keyboard. So now it works like a pc when it is in the docking station and a laptop when not. But still had the same problem with the gig space. so with a bit of help form the brother inlaw i now had a 200gig hard drive unit that marries up to the laptop in two ways. Can be put into the USB port, or conected to the network so you can use it at the desk for looking though all my new and old files, and can also use it on the wireless, sat on the sofa whatching tv (has a password too for a bit more saftey). Fast load means it is like looking in your my documents file, just becomes another file on the computor, but i have freed up at least 40 gig on the laptop so it is working faster. Sorry had to tell , as moglite will tell you i am not very IT savy so i am a bit pleased with myself that it is all working. And it cost me a fraction of the cost of a new PC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I have a USB hard drive as well, I use mine mainly for backups (got ****ed off with Zip disks and CDs, too much faffing around) they are a brilliant invention and I saw a 320 gig one when I was looking around PC World a few weeks ago, instant solution to storage problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imspanners Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 The system works by literally firing the spark from one plug through the head and back up the other plug to complete the circuit. A quick way to test the system is swop the coils over, if the spark fault remains on the same plug then the ECU is shot (very common fault on Puntos unfortunately). You can buy one from Fiat or a repairer. They DO NOT need to be programmed, just plug it in, start the vehicle and allow it to warm up. Once the fan has cut in, rev the engine 3 times over 3000rpm to complete programming. Speak to these guys: ecu technologies ltd unit 103 anglesey court towers business park rugeley staffordshire ws15 1uz 01889 575057 I checked today and it is indeed the Punto that suffers with the ECU failing when a coil pack fails ……….. Fiat do an exchange ECU but it needs to be programmed ………….. To save you the cost of the fiat stealer doing it, I might be able to get hold of the instructions as IIRC you can do it all manually……………You have to set the immobiliser codes and also teach the ecu some engine parameters …… I’ll post when I have the document in my mitts. Ian Fitted one at the side of the road, no programming required. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Got to agree, at work we are now using these "remote" hard drives for backups (its much easier to copy one drive then pick bits off other computers) and large file storage (mainly photos as well), the server is much happier with this system as its only peer to peer running 22 pc's! (I know - but it still works fine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Thanks for all your help gents. I checked the spark with an old fashioned neon strobe light in series with each plug lead in turn. By swapping wires the deadness was traced to the front coil in the coilpack. I'll be double checking given the fact I could be faced with an ECU change. I would be very grateful for programming info for future reference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 On Satruday I sorted out the front flexi-hose problems. Made stainless steel disc and ali discs to clamp the rubber grommet in the side panel so that will stay put and put a bit of twist so the hoses will drop down on full lock and not rub on the tyre. Brill!! ........ until I tried to bleed the brakes. The brake pedal was not returning so after trying self-bleed and easi-bleed, the latter being perfect if you want brake fluid pissing about everyhwere, no joy. A closer look revealed that the clevis was not bolted to the pedal - my fault - so more stuff undone to rectify that ... and that made no difference. Problem is inside the master. So more stuff removed and out comes tha master and the first question. What Ford car/model is this master cylinder from? From various Haynes manuals it is not Cortina (servo), not mk2 escort (2 port) nor Capri. This has 3 metric ports, 2 at front for front brakes and one rear for rear brakes. It looks like the one shown in Fiesta and Sierra manuals. The date moulded to the reservoir is 6/82 so matches the Fiesta/Sierra dates. There is a plethora of what I suspect to be useless numbers, stamped on the body plus on the plastic tag as follows: 66315 92 38/62 7446(or 8)6(or 8)0862 The diameter of the piston is about 22 mm. I have been unable to remove the primary piston. The circlip is out and compressed air plus a small expanding puller (M5 bolt with clutch pipe) have failed to extract it. So how can I get this out? I am going to try a rawl bolt (the expanding cone type) as a last result if I can get one small enough. Both manuals state there is a pin to hold the secondary piston in place and the primary piston should just pop out, yeah..... (unless it is this pin stopping the primary piston?) It seems this pin is accessible after removing the reservoir - anyone know about this and how to pull off the reservoir without damaging it? (lever off using wooden wedges?) If I fail to extract the piston, then am I likley to be able to get a new master cylinder, from whom (Ford?) Photo below shows how I have manged to pull out the the primary piston - not far enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Glad its working out for you - much better solution than upgrading the hard-drive in the laptop. I'll teach you how to sell cars next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I can't help thinking you logged into the wrong forum by accident... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 You have to remove the reservoir before the piston assembly can be removed. There's a pin that has to be removed I think. I don't think you should strip the master until you have identified/bought a seal kit. It's quite common for the pedal to not return if there's a lot of air in the system. The extra pedal travel means the pivot point 'goes over', and then holds the pedal down on the floor. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 The system works by literally firing the spark from one plug through the head and back up the other plug to complete the circuit. What???? How can that be? How does the spark "know" which other cylinder to go back up - is there a wire inside the cylinder head bewtween the spark plugs to make this circuit? The +ve is the spark plug tip, unless the spark plugs thread are isolated from the cylinder head, whcih I doubt as you would need a second contact to the threaded part of the spark plug (I've not come across a plug like that yet) , the -ve will the cylinder head which should be common ground for all the cylinders; and be connected to -ve of battrery so no other voltage, spark, bunny wabbit or otherwise will be trying to get to any where else once it is at ground. Interesting theory mind.... Wasted spark - coil triggered off crank position; as it is a 4 stroke, 2 crank revs per one combustion cycle hence 1 spark at end of compression stroke and other spark on end of exhaust stroke, the latter making no contribution to the engine operation hence it is wasted - easy (i.e. cheap) to implement. (cf distributor where spakr is triggered off cam position) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 This is very similar to the early Landrover dual circuit master cylinder. The type that supercedes it is much simpler and in my experience easier to bleed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 What???? How can that be? How does the spark "know" which other cylinder to go back up - is there a wire inside the cylinder head bewtween the spark plugs to make this circuit? Dead easy. Connect one end of the HT winding on the coil to one plug, the other end to another plug. The plugs and coil all end up in series, with the ground (cylinder head) at a potential half way between the two plugs. This gives two spark gaps in series, generating a fatter spark. There are two coils in the coil pack, one pair of plugs connected to each. The ECU doesn't need to know which cylinder of a pair is coming up to the ignition point, two pistons approach TDC together, one on the igntion stroke, one on the exhaust stroke. They both spark together, the ignition stroke piston being fired, the spark on the exhaust piston is wasted. In theorey you will end up with one plug with a +ve voltage at its tip, the other -ve with respect to the block, although in pratice I suspect the spark is a high frequency AC jobby to get the most out of the coil, but I'm guessing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 80's Transit van? (an old comper of mine had one and it looked very similar to that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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