FridgeFreezer Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 So have you ever actually driven an 88" fitted with the BRAKES OF DEATH or are you just imagining that a slight improvement over your "very appropriate" brakes will be awful and undriveable? Off on another tangent that was talked up earlier in the thread - an alternative to the tedium of yet another 200TDi conversion would be to fit Megasquirt EFI to the 2.25 lump. They are massively under-tuned from the factory, so the potential is there for a massive gain in performance, driveability, economy, and reliability without the nasty rattling noise from the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 If the base vehicle is this bad why are you starting with it? Is it an attempt to save £200 a year? This overlanding thing seems a bit like an exercise in how many kitchen sinks I can carry across the Alps without my Land Rover once going wrong, you may as well use a vehicle from another brand, something like DAF for instance!! How on earth did we manage in the past with standard Series vehicles? There does seem to be a culture of "you NEED this" or else you might die or something ridiculous Frankly the best vehicle for the job is the Discovery that you are trying to immitate with a Series body on top! I can categorically say I have never been overlanding, but as someone who spent long periods travelling the length of Europe in a 2.25d 109 with my old man, and whose friends drove to Switzerland and back in Series 1s with nothing bigger than 1997cc under the bonnet, I will say you can go and over complicate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Off on another tangent that was talked up earlier in the thread - an alternative to the tedium of yet another 200TDi conversion would be to fit Megasquirt EFI to the 2.25 lump. They are massively under-tuned from the factory, so the potential is there for a massive gain in performance, driveability, economy, and reliability without the nasty rattling noise from the front. Agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 It's worth remembering that most overlanding these days is no more than long-distance highway driving. Any normal decent-size road car would do the job just as well as a Land Rover, and probably more comfortably! Not as cool though It's not the Camel Trophy any more, we have metalled roads or at least decent tracks in 90% of the places one would want to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 i agree. lets not forget that late 88"s ran 11" TLS up front, and normal 10" drums at the back as standard from the factory. they are fine; they would have to be as they were sold like that! Yes they did, and very good they are too, its very rare mine lock, but she brakes extremely well. On the point about how we ever managed before, thats my standard answer when people keep telling me about all the things I've got to find for my 109 camper...got to fit in a fridge..got to have an inverter...got to have leisure batteries...you'll never have room to sleep in the back with all the stuff...you'll have to have a roof tent.... no we wont. no fridge, no inverter, no heating, false floor as a bad in the tub.....and yes, she's a Series 3 with drums all round, although I have TDi'd her, and she's also a 5-dr station wagon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Gore Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 If the base vehicle is this bad why are you starting with it? Is it an attempt to save £200 a year? No. It's a 1982 model. This overlanding thing seems a bit like an exercise in how many kitchen sinks I can carry across the Alps without my Land Rover once going wrong, you may as well use a vehicle from another brand, something like DAF for instance!! I don't want to. I like LRs, I understand LRs. If the vehicle was not part of the adventure, then I'd do it in a Ford Mondeo. How on earth did we manage in the past with standard Series vehicles? There does seem to be a culture of "you NEED this" or else you might die or something ridiculous Frankly the best vehicle for the job is the Discovery that you are trying to immitate with a Series body on top! Do you actually know what a Discovery is? Sam Watson would disagree they are the 'best vehicle for the job' and so would I, given how often the D2 failed going to and from the Pyrenees compared to my SWB Series on coils. I can categorically say I have never been overlanding, Ah, that explains it. but as someone who spent long periods travelling the length of Europe in a 2.25d 109 with my old man, and whose friends drove to Switzerland and back in Series 1s with nothing bigger than 1997cc under the bonnet, I will say you can go and over complicate things. Thanks - the last part was helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Yes you can overcomplicate , but having travelled on autobahns at 45mph for hour after hour in a 109 2 1/4 diesel 109 i decided to complicate a bit by putting a 3.8 leyland diesel in , great improvement , 60mph cruise same mpg and 60mph over the alps as well instead of 20/25 mph ! I had a gas fridge and griill/cooker and s/steel sink with running water in back and enough room to sleep two , in1968 ! Mind you was great to go to stage 1 V8 (so quiet) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty43 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I'm fairly certain that the last time I flicked through LRO Sam Watson owned a Camel Discovery.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Not only can overland vehicles be over-complicated, more often than not they are. The main unnecessary additions are suspension lifts, oversize tyres, wheel spacers, fitted and pumped water tanks, fitted stoves and gas tanks and roof top tents. Fitting a more powerful, efficient and reliable engine like a Tdi is not an unnecessary complication, though, as other drivers in your convoy will soon get fed up with your lack of progress on the motorways taking you to your expedition area and you will soon get fed up with wasting fuel. As for the whole discussion about brakes, my point, apparently no made clearly enough, is that whatever was fitted as standard is generally quite sufficient if in good order and that upgrades are usually of questionable, if any, benefit, and while standards 109 brakes may be of some help to a heavily laden 88, the dearer 1-ton or Stage I brakes are simply more powerful than is of any use on the shorter, lighter vehicle. Expensive disc brake conversions have little benefit other than making maintenance easier and not suffering as much degradation from wading in mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I enjoy looking at the photos in Tom Sheppard's books - all his cars are almost completely standard and what kit he takes is incredibly minimal. That to me shows far better prep than people who take 3 kitchen sinks. That said, once you've pared down all the junk to the bare essentials, adding in a few luxuries can make life so much nicer. At the end of a long hot day, pulling a cold beer out of the fridge and kicking back is priceless. My fridge and my eberspacher are two luxuries I'd buy again in an instant. Tex - a 200TDi discovery need be no more complicated than a 200TDi Defender or Series, and it's going to be more comfy than either. If a D2 is too complicated for someone to fix by the roadside then they shouldn't be using it. The belgian collective ran a V8 P38 at Ladoga and survived intact, river crossings included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Gore Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm fairly certain that the last time I flicked through LRO Sam Watson owned a Camel Discovery.... Interesting - my comment was on the basis of his comments about the Disco as an overlanding vehicle in his book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty43 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 His only comment against them in the little picture book LRO gave away about overlanding was that they had less space inside and were harder pack. As an aside to that (in my opinion) you get a quietish, comfortable vehicle with somewhere to put your legs and elbows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty43 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 As a matter of interest I'd like to know what he says about the Disco in his book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I think it's fair to say that Series LRs and Defenders lend themselves to expedition work, and most other tasks, due to their body shape, with a very easy to use flat floor and near vertical sides with few protrusions or unusable spaces. They also have more off-the-shelf accessories which, while costly, make preparation easier than DIY fabrications. Mechanically and from a driving perspective, a D1 should be much the same as a Defender. I'd have reservations about a D2 because of the electronics, and would certainly not use an EAS equipped seven seater (I saw one rupture and air spring in the Alps and none of the regional LR dealers wanted to touch it, leaving the owner to limp it on the bump stops and wait at a camp site for four days for the parts to arrive from the UK). I think it's also fair to say that doing a trip in a Series vehicle feels like more of an adventure and accomplishment for the basic and rugged nature of the vehicle, so while it's harder and more tiring to use than a Defender, it enhances the trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 And there, I think, you have it.... I have done a fair bit of overlanding over the years: Portugal, Morocco, x2, Tunisia, Norway, Croatia, the Alps etc, both as a driver and as a navigator. I have travelled in Disco 1, Disco 2 and Disco 3 as well as a 300tdi 90, a stage 1 V8 109, a 2.25 109, a TD5 110 and a puma 110. Whilst the Discos have been more than capable and comfortable on all the trips I have taken in them, the experience has always felt somewhat sterile and uninspiring. The trips in the defenders/Series trucks on the other hand have always been much more involved and somehow engaging in the whole spirit of the trip. Just driving the things have, on occasion, represented as much of the adventure as the actual trip itself. Your memories are of not just the views and the locations you visit but of the whole experience of getting there and back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Screw it.... I'm going to stir things up here. Sure it has a certain charm to travel as they did 50years ago, with no comfort whatsoever. If you're into that kinda stuff, knock yourself out. I do prefer just a bit of luxury. I mean, why make life harder for yourself for the sake of a bit nostalgia, especially when you're undertaking a LONG trip. I love my prepped (offroad, not expedition) 109 LR to death, I love taking the top off when travelling around and enjoying that whole feeling. It's reliable and reasonably comfy enough for any Europe trip and probably North Africa if I put some more effort in making the thing theftproof and more secure for my belongings. For anything else I would only consider one vehicle.... If you like reading trip reports, have a go at this one. Their trip through the Congo is just a fenominal read! Yes, even LandCruisers go wrong Yes, they snapped rear hub studs leaving them with front wheel drive Yes, they struggled in the jungle, at one point managing only half a mile in a day driving on just the front axle..... till the diff went bang Yes they were stranded in the jungle with no drive to the axles, no brakes and dead batteries... Yes, they made it out! Their story is amazing! Read all about it here: http://www.expeditio...shi-to-Kinshasa I still haven't finished reading..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerboa Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I'm thinking about taking my 109 to North Africa next year. It wont be the only overland trip I've been on, but it will be the first in a leaf-sprung Landy. I have been thinking about what modifications I want to do to it before I go. Calling on the experience a few overland miles has given leads me to this conclusion; I won't make any at all. If (as Snapper says) your vehicle is serviceable and in good order, it'll be good for the trip. You don't need any upgrades to aid performance - it's all there! It will cut you up more if something happens to the vehicle and you spent too much on it. I suffered this misfortune - I "lost" my disco in the western desert. Think damage limitation. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/sahara-travel-forum/egypt-gilf-kebir-warning-32826-2 Although, for the same reasons as Snapper says, a 200tdi could be a good idea. It's not necessarily the speed, more range is the call of the day. It means you'll carry less fuel. Less fuel = less weight, less strain on mechanical components etc. I will be fitting parabolic springs though. And the only reason for that is the fact that my old ones have seen better days and you can't get decent OE quality replacements these days. That's it. Make sure everything is serviceable. Put a few J'cans, tools, spares in and go. Keep it simple..! P.S. ToyRoverlander, Toyota HJZ75/78 (as above) - one word; mint..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Gore Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 The above sums it up perfectly Mr Farmer. I recently did the Pyrenees in a Series 3, and with the doortops off I felt entirely 'part of it'. Meanwhile in the sterile environment of my mate's D2, things were somewhat different. I think I'll stick with a largely original vehicle - just put the 200Tdi in. Thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 All that matters in the end is that you have fun, and go in a reliable vehicle, so making sure the vehicle you go with is in good condition you're fine. I went with my 109 to the Alps, together with a mate who took his 109. His is a 4door SW, mine a softtop and I absolutely LOVED it! Sure it made more noise and all, and it was a bit of a faff on the way back when the rain was close and I had to spend half an hour realigning and rolling down the tilt and putting the doortops back in.. Driving like this just rocks! Only reason I didn't take the top off completely is that you get roasted in the sun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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