Soren Frimodt Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Hi guys, just trying to get a "feeler" at how interesting this would be to you guys.. As we are planning to make some fast mechanical winches to a couple of 90"s we are about make a PTO unit, which will mostly consist of parts from another LT230. But as we might as well make several, rather than a couple, I was thinking that there might be some interest in the community? So we're talking a rearward facing output with flange for std LR propshaft. And in the kit will be included what you'll need next to a spare LT230 from which you can gather the rest of the parts. So what are your thoughts on this? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat404 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Hi Soren, Hope your well and the MOG is going great, Sounds a great idea to be honest, those that are available always go for daft money. Just remember that any output will need some method of lubrication channel on the shafts" sounds dodgy I know" but the genuine pto's have a small e-longagted oil feed, Keep me posted please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I made one! I kind of abandoned the project because I was told that a Chinese PTO / hydraulic winch was about to be launched. Mine was pretty simple to machine - using one of my favourite milling / turning tricks to cut the splines to engage with the back of the gearbox. It didn't use a collar to engage / disengage, it slides the whole of the adaptor on the splines of the hydraulic pump, using a cam to move it. I'll see if I can dig out the drawings - I doubt I'll be turning it in to a product any time soon. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I recon your using other transfer box parts to save cost, but if you do a hydraulic drive option (Spline output), a hydraulic motor 'input' would be handy. I'm impressed with the Icelandic ones for crawling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I made one! I kind of abandoned the project because I was told that a Chinese PTO / hydraulic winch was about to be launched. Mine was pretty simple to machine - using one of my favourite milling / turning tricks to cut the splines to engage with the back of the gearbox. It didn't use a collar to engage / disengage, it slides the whole of the adaptor on the splines of the hydraulic pump, using a cam to move it. I'll see if I can dig out the drawings - I doubt I'll be turning it in to a product any time soon. Si I'd be interested in seeing them if you do find them...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 Cheers for the input guys Not sure whether you mean the output in the transfer or on the PTO unit. But the unit itself will have it's own oil sump, and the output on the transfer should be plenty lubricated if you have a cross drilled shaft I'm sure. Why am I not surprised that you have already been there Si? But I'm sure you'll like our idea You could easily use this unit to drive your vehicle, you would simply have to mate your hydraulic motor to a flange that fits the output flange on a land rover. I will keep you guys updated when we begin construction of the kit. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Is this in any attempt to imitate the 'god-winch' of Malaysian fame? I'm interested from a techinical standpoint, definitely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 its how most JCB diggers and loadalls are powered these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 Is this in any attempt to imitate the 'god-winch' of Malaysian fame? Yep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 oh come on, theres got to be some kind of an update already!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 oh come on, theres got to be some kind of an update already!!! There you go .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Sooo here goes the first pictures! Remember this is ONLY a prototype, the first one to be exact, and therefore not everything is as it'll end up. But the basics are covered. We are able to mill and lathe everything ourselves, but splines in the shaft will be made by a company that does nothing else for a living other than special small batches of splined shafts and gears. The neat thing about this kit is that you get a really tried and tested engagement system, AND a indicator that only tells you it's engaged, when it actually is, and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Assembled unit: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 That's a very nice use of an old LT230... i'm guessing here, but that could well be rather cheaply when made in bulk, with just the flange adapter and spline adapter...? Can't really see, but is there still room for an X-Brake ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruuman Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I like that a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat404 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Looks superb, Having wanted a pto winch for along time. any having looked into many different types. What makes this different? From what I can remember using the pto on an lt230 means you cannot use drive also? You can use the gearbox gears to speed up the winch but not drive the wheels at the same time? Am I right in thinking this? Tin hat on waiting!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 A fair question, and there is indeed some complications in driving a winch through the PTO. First off, you will not be able to de-clutch without loosing power to the winch (obviously) But this also means that you cannot correct the speed of your wheels by fiddling the clutch as you would with, say an electric winch. And of course there's the usual mechanical/hydro issue with not having power if your engine is dead or upside down. BUT the problem with not being able to use your wheels alongside the winch is only present on most PTO winches because they are sloow, if your line speed matches the speed of your wheels, you will theoretically just be driving along without digging into the ground, and therefore crossing a bog or sand will be a lot easier. But we have decided to have a bit more wheel speed than line speed, not much but a tad, mostly because it won't hurt that much because we almost only winch in bogs or up very steep sand slopes so the wheels can slip a bit without making the winch cable jump because of on/off traction. And the line speed will change as you get more wire on the drum. So if you were to make perfect balance between the wheels and line speeds, you would have to use the Capstan principle with a drum that picks up the line behind the Capstan ,just like the winch on a 101" But we would also like to keep the speed of the winch somewhat low-ish so that it can still be used with a fair amount of safety, and be used for the more technical stuff. BUT It'll never be as good for the really slow technical stuff as an electric winch, which is why both 90" will have that fitted as well. In reality this winch will give us the luxury of getting one car fairly quickly through the course and then be able to pull the rest of the team through the course with maximum speed and ease, and minimum time-waste on rigging, moving anchors and whatnot. hope this clarifies things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Nice bit of innovation here, I like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Sounds good Soren, plus with an auto, the box would just slip a bit to make up the difference I guess Pretty promising if you ask me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I like that, ideal for mechanical PTO stuff and good to use proven & easily available parts (old LT230's). I shan't be throwing my hydraulic PTO away just yet though as that doesn't lend itself to bolting a hydraulic pump or other accessory directly to the back of it as far as I can tell? I guess you could modify an output flange to drive the motor & make some sort of bracket though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 That's actually very clever! Much more so than my design! It never occurred to me to use the front prop drive housing and selector - I machined my own. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schneide Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 It look very nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 We really appreciate all the nice words This is what makes you want to share your crazy ideas right? FF: You are absolutely right, but the point of this conversion for us is not to make a finished product that anyone can just slam on in 10 minutes and off they go! This is a DIY job, and it allows a guy with only basic hand tools and a shed (like myself) to either fit a hydraulic pump, grass cutter, belt drive, mechanical winch or whatever he might fancy, for a very fair amount of money that anyone should be able to overcome. This is, what we think, is the beauty of this kit. If you should fancy purpose made, off the shelve stuff there's plenty out there. And really the reason why we haven't thought along the lines of hydraulic pump fitting is because we're going the mechanical winch route so it has no relevance to us, but I'm sure most of you guys would be able to make a bracket to suit if needed. We will be working more on this project in the weekend so more updates by then. Cheers for the comments and keep them coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat404 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Hi Soren, I will e-mail a good friend of mine who has completed in 100's of KM off road in europe in his white tomcat with twin drum pto mechanical rear winch. The car is awesome and inspired me to build my last tomcat. The winch again is superb and I would vouch for anything he has to say on PTO winches and pretty much gospel. we competed in the original tay trophy and it was his car that went back and recovered ....... twin motored......said winches and won spirit of the event . He winched his own car to almost the top of the hill( V F Steep) and then moved the drive to the rear spooled drum and pulled the 90 I was co driving up the hill till the bumpers were touching and then both trucks to the V top. Awesome. PM me for more details buddy. Nath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat404 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Hi Soren, I will e-mail a good friend of mine who has completed in 100's of KM off road in europe in his white tomcat with twin drum pto mechanical rear winch. The car is awesome and inspired me to build my last tomcat. The winch again is superb and I would vouch for anything he has to say on PTO winches and pretty much gospel. we competed in the original tay trophy and it was his car that went back and recovered ....... twin motored......said winches and won spirit of the event . He winched his own car to almost the top of the hill( V F Steep) and then moved the drive to the rear spooled drum and pulled the 90 I was co driving up the hill till the bumpers were touching and then both trucks to the V top. Awesome. PM me for more details buddy. Nath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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