moose Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 All sound interesting having seen fast pto winches in action in Europe. They seem to work very well for pulls across ground were traction is only there 25 - 50% of the time (like a deep river) where if using an electric winch you would have to slow down to stop running over your own rope. would love to see what you are going to use as the winch. Seen people use diffs with basically a spool fitted and drum mounted on the drive shaft. How are you going to do the brake? I had thought about using a disc brake that worked off the foot brake, as this is what you would naturally be doing to stop the drive assist, then use a line lock to lock the drum if you need to hang of the cable etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Looks good! Any plans for a drop box to get the drive facing forward for a more traditional set up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Seen people use diffs with basically a spool fitted and drum mounted on the drive shaft. If you were to drive into the pinion from the PTO then use one of the wheel drives to connect to your drum and fit a disk brake on the other (with an open diff) you could slip the brake to vary the speed of the line. Release the brake and you have freespool / disengage. If the PTO is left engaged, then your foot-brake locks the winch line (as the PTO is connected directly to the wheels). This gives the variable speed for drive assist as well as freespool relatively cheaply. Ratio wise, you get 20,000Lb pull for 470ftlb of torque into the pinion. 1st gear on an R380 is about 3.3:1 so to get 20,000 Lb pull, you need an engine torque of 142ftLb which is achievable with most engines. Speed wise, at 1000rpm on the engine, it gives 44ft/min. A stock 8274 with no load runs at about 70ft/min. 1000rpm in first gear low gives a wheel speed of 230ft/min based on 35" Tyres - so actually, to be able to pull in at the same speed as you are driving (assuming 100% traction) the reduction to the drum would be closer to 1:1. Alternatively, with the diff setup, you could just use a 6" or bigger diameter drum I guess. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Do we have a price yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Looks good! Any plans for a drop box to get the drive facing forward for a more traditional set up? Rather than this, run a winch in the rear, and the rope going round a snatch block at the rear bumper and coming forward. 1 winch, pulls both ways, and makes the engineering much easier/cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 So here you go guys, after a very long, tiring but productive day, we finally have something substantial to show First we did a prototype adapter made from ordinary steel. just to get the programming right and make sure everything worked as supposed. Then we did three production units from CRNIMO6 ChromeNickel. These will then get shipped out next week to get the splines cut, the only thing that we sadly couldn't do ourselves. Anyways I suppose the pictures says the most, please notice the taper on the adapter with a radius of 38,9mm to match that of the diffhousing piece we use from the LT230 Two of the members of the "development team": The super fancy drawing: And to top it off, a short video, demonstrating the function: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I want one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 When you know the price do let us know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 That is a really neat solution Is the only mod required to the donor casting to remove that web to clear the hand brake drum? Will you just remove the access plate to fill it with oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat404 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Brilliant, Keep at it lads, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hi guys, just some quick answers to some of your questions. No plans for a front output PTO, as it is not relevant to us. Price is still very uncertain until we get the adapters back from splining. And yes you will simply remove the top lid to fill oil. The only mod that is required to the centerdiff housing is to cut off the casting for the gearbox mount. And Nath thank you for your input, really appreciated, but I think we will draw our own experiences from this build, but very kind of you anyways. Any other questions, just ask! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Fabrication of the winch itself can now commence: First get out the old grinder and some misc pieces of old axle parts: After a bit of messing about, you have the basic layout: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Do you think the lt230 pto spline will be strong enough for the drive? I'm on an identical path to you (except you've made more progress in a week than i have in a year) I've chosen to use a lt95 because of the stronger drive, i'm making the drive out of a fairey overdrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Do you think the lt230 pto spline will be strong enough for the drive? I'm on an identical path to you (except you've made more progress in a week than i have in a year) I've chosen to use a lt95 because of the stronger drive, i'm making the drive out of a fairey overdrive. The PTO dog teeth on an LT230 do appear to be very light duty compared to LT95 and Series PTOs Probably ok for the regular 30 to 60:1 worm drive winches, but I wouldn't have much confidence in their ability to deliver 140 lb ft of torque as per Simons post. I wonder what the makers of the Esarco 8x8s did to beef up the PTO drive when they joined 2 LT230s together via the PTOs? Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Is there any spare splining on the inside of the LT230 input gear? If it's up to taking the input torque from the gearbox it should be up to siphoning a bit of it back out the other end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 a little off topic, but why do you have holes drilled in that hand brake drum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I should imagine it's to hose it out after playing in the mud to stop it being crammed with mud in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Is there any spare splining on the inside of the LT230 input gear? If it's up to taking the input torque from the gearbox it should be up to siphoning a bit of it back out the other end. There's no spare splining on mine when mated to the r380... I suppose you could shorten the gearbox output shaft.... the splines are missing from the end of my output shaft anyway from before it had the cross drilled input gear in the transfer box. The PTO Splines don't look that weedy though, and of course the increased diameter at that location would reduce the pressure placed upon them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 In my humble opinion, the splines are more than strong enough! If you compare it to a half shaft with tiddly little, shallow splines which in the case of uprated shafts will still hold at about 7000Nm when the shaft breaks - I think this amount of torque (500Nm) is trivial. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Thinking about this a bit further, I haven't done the maths but it seems unlikely that you could generate enough torque to strip the splines off the PTO gear before the winch cable fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I bet the diameter of the spline is your saving grace here; I run a 9:1 ratio myself, even so I think the gkn overdrive utilizes the same spline. You may want to use the version that has double the teeth count, but I dont know which output gear that is. daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat404 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I bet the diameter of the spline is your saving grace here; I run a 9:1 ratio myself, even so I think the gkn overdrive utilizes the same spline. You may want to use the version that has double the teeth count, but I dont know which output gear that is. daan I've seen quite a few of the direct drive type pto winches and none have broken the splines to date....... we have been lifting... large steel transformers up power lines even to the point the actual,landrover was going up with it Daan, how do you get on with drive assist with your winch? nath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Daan, how do you get on with drive assist with your winch? nath Very well, I always use drive assist. It obviously is not 1:1 with the wheels, but it makes an incredibly usefull setup; 1 winch for all uses. It never failed to get me out, using the standard x-eng groundanchor. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Found it: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=59391&hl=&fromsearch=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Some wise words and good questions floating about here, great stuff First off the the handbrake is just a weightsaving attempt for a 1600kg trial 90" from yesteryear.. Not recommendable as it fills with carp in no time! I think the PTO spline thing has been covered, and I can safely say that we do not expect this to be the weak spot of our winch setup. Actually we would like to be able to predict where exactly that weak spot is, but I don't think we can until we get some hands on experience, nothing in the automotive world is bombproof, so its all about controlling, and obviously minimizing the weak links. We will be making a full spline count in our adapter so that it can fit onto the PTO spline of the stronger older units, but both 90"s are running the later weaker version so we will see if it works, if not they shall both get some old transfers fitted instead, but I think it'll hold up just fine. The problem is that as far as I know you cannot have both a crossdrilled shaft AND one with the heavy duty PTO spline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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