Play & Driving Days

[rovernut]

Before I start this topic I would like to say that this is not a critisism of any club or organisation.

On Sunday, I was at Slab for a drive around day organised by SLRC. I was there along with only four other vehicles which is great for me but not so great for the club who have to pay the MOD for the use of the site. It was almost the same situation a few months back at Slab, only this time it was AWDC.

I can see that it will only be a matter of time before the clubs can no longer run these days as they are not cost effective.

If like me, you would rather off road non competatively, there will be nowhere to play in the mud.

I don't know what the answer is, maybe two or more clubs co-operating and splitting costs and admin etc;

Even the SCOR randonnee was not run this year because the sums don't add up due to entry numbers falling.

It is not so long ago I can remember having to queue to wade the lake or climb the tank hills because of the number of vehicles attending. I think those days have gone forever.

I have never thought of driving any other make, but I have to say I am finding it hard to justify the costs of running my Landy if it isn't being off roaded now and again.

[landroversforever]

Well I would have been there but my truck is broken after the wales trip.

It is probably true to say that cost of fuel etc is going to be a factor keeping some away

[Retroanaconda]

I would cite three reasons for my lack of attendance at Shire play-days in recent years:

1. My lack of time with college/two jobs etc.
   
2. The cost of fuel, the sites are not local to me so there is a considerable travel penalty, if you will.
   
3. I've somewhat fallen out of love with off-roading 'for the sake of it'. I enjoy it, but I don't enjoy cleaning & fixing the car afterwards. I still do a lot of driving off-road, but most of it is either at work or helping with running/marshalling events etc. - neither of which are extreme or damaging.
   

I dunno, I guess I get more enjoyment out of the car as a practical and useable everyday vehicle than I do with it sunk to it's axles in mud/water and me sitting there imagining the amount of stripping down I'm going to have to do to clean it!

None of these reasons are the fault of the clubs, and it would be a shame if the events were no longer viable. Then again you look at things like the London 2 Brighton, Newbury Sortout, Billing etc. They're all quite well attended, even in today's climate of fuel poverty.

[mikeyb13]

I would like to try some off road days but most of them are too far from where I live and driving there in my v8i auto will cost a fortune, also if i do some major damage its a long way to be towed home.

[moose]

I will throw in my thoughts.

There are very few play and pay sites left and ones at Bordon get done to death for example Shires at slab last weekend and HBRO this.

I do still like going there and find it a good area to test and shake down new setups.

but for me to haul all my gear there and back plus the cost of the day is a good 70quid, So i don't/can't go every month.

There was also a lot on last weekend, another club in the same membership area, was trying out a new site and so that would have drawn people.

The other problem clubs have its advertising the events, as this needs to be done far in advance and site are not always able to be booked that far ahead.

Where as pay and play sites for example can tell the mags and publish that they will be open on a weekend of every month and the word get around.

Any way Shires next one is 5 mins of black smoke down the road form me and at a site that has not been used for some time, so will be making an effort to make this one.

Paul

[steve200TDi]

Any way Shires next one is 5 mins of black smoke down the road form me and at a site that has not been used for some time, so will be making an effort to make this one.

Paul

I second that, I'll be there. Should be interesting to seee how the site has changed, if it has changed!

Steve

[Disco-Ron]

Well, i am treasurer for the club i belong to, we have hired a local site three times now, and had pretty good turn out on all three ocassions.......

however, the site has also been used by other clubs with apparentky less strict marshalling, and as a result those that want more serious offroading have basically driven into areas and made thier own track into areas which were out of bound....... this has resulted in the site being shut down, and apparently the management company is re-considering its charges, its now expected to be in the region of 2k for one days hire........

now, my club is not in a strong enough financial position to risk hiring the site and then no-one turning up........ so i doubt we'll use it again, which is a great shame, as its yet again the few, that have spoilt it for the majority..... much like green laneing, the reckless ruin it for the resposible ones amongst us......

sadly i fear this situation will only mean that the reckless have fewer places to 'play'.... lets hope they don't decide to 'play' illegally off piste on lanes even more than already happens.......

just my opinion, not that of the club i belong to................!

[smokinv8]

Only reason I don't attend that often is because I work nearly every weekend.

Run a offroad event on a Monday or Tuesday and il be there!

Not likely to happen is it? Lol

[ARMYBOB]

salb is fairly local to me (arborfield) and i would probably have come along, but i was invited to another event just down the road, on the forrestry commision land "head down" common i believe it is called

it was run by wessex hill runners and there were plenty of people there, any way

i guess the point is there were 2 events within 10 miles or so of each other so the turnout is probably split that way,

organisers need to check if there are other events on the same time or not, no critisism just a suggestion

[Disco-Ron]

As a club, we.ve always booked our driving day sites at least 6 months ahead, in general clubs don't advertise events that far ahead, so not ending up with two events close together may not be that easy. . .

[miketomcat]

Shire calendar has already been set for next year and I believe is on our club site but I know it will clash with something. It is very difficult to check all the other clubs for dates plus sites are becoming few and far between so clubs tend to over use the ones we have. Perhaps its time for clubs to get together and work something out?

Mike

[mudmagnet]

if they just run it as a pay and play day or a promotional driving day then i know some people who would of gone including me

but all the clubs seem to want you to be a member of their club as well which makes the day expensive.

i dont know how much the club running this event were charging but when i went along to the AWDC christmas driveround they wanted £30 membership and £35 for the days driving

so i turned round and went and did some laning instead.

i cant justify that sort of money for a day out offroading and thats before fuel

[landroversforever]

if they just run it as a pay and play day or a promotional driving day then i know some people who would of gone including me

but all the clubs seem to want you to be a member of their club as well which makes the day expensive.

i dont know how much the club running this event were charging but when i went along to the AWDC christmas driveround they wanted £30 membership and £35 for the days driving

so i turned round and went and did some laning instead.

i cant justify that sort of money for a day out offroading and thats before fuel

The membership covers insurance.

Shires events are £20 for a day. and membership is around ~£15 for the year..

[Bowie69]

but all the clubs seem to want you to be a member of their club as well which makes the day expensive.

It's normally a requirement for the insurers.... a lot of clubs say £30 members, £35 non-members, but this includes your joining fee, which must be charged for.

Not sure what club you are talking about, so unable to comment further....

[GBMUD]

Shires events are £20 for a day. and membership is around ~£15 for the year..

Great if you intend to do several events but not so good as a one off. I know and understand the reasons why membership is required but that does not change the economics.

I guess that clubs are subject to the same pressures as businesses when it comes to getting people to spend money, but clubs are in the position of not needing to show a profit. For this reason, sharing sites (if that is practicable), or at least making sure that dates do not clash, seems a good starting point.

What about trying to make the drive-round days more entertaining? As Retroanaconda, I too tired of off-roading for the sake of it and long ago turned to marshaling sites and competitions to make it more fulfilling and purposeful. How about trying to add some element of competition - no prizes, just a few taped sections to attempt and see if you can do better than your mates? I am sure that there must be other ways to bring a new element into it... The only times recently that I can recall deliberately taking a more difficult route it has been due to some competitive challenge between mates - who can get through the mud, over the hill, through the gully etc.. Generally, I find greenlaning more fulfilling these days.

I have recently (not) arranged a forum green lane trip, yet despite a lot of interest expressed by forum members after I did not (not) arrange one last year, there has been very little interest as compared with previous trips. I guess is is just the times we live in.

Chris

[Bowie69]

Chris, JST's Drive Round Days sound like what you want, to an extent, possibly too restrictive for you, but they are still an excellent day out.

[landroversforever]

Don't know if you know chris, but quite a few (maybe all) shires events have something like a photo punch challenge to do if you so wish. Personally I like the just driving round stuff, but I also enjoy the challenge of 'having' to get in/out/through somewhere and the punches give that

[FridgeFreezer]

Putting my SLRC hat on, we have always tried to keep membership costs low, and we're trying to keep all the club play days at £20 as far as possible. We try to add interest by running casual punch hunting, basic trials sections, etc. where we have the time & manpower to set up.

There are always problems no matter how perfectly you plan - not everyone books their calendar far in advance, and not everyone checks for other clashing events, land owners sometimes cancel or move things which messes everyone around and of course mucks people's plans up.

---

Personally I think £35 is not bad for a day out, it's not even half a tank of fuel these days, and it's a lot less than stuff like track days. I'm not sure a fiver either way on event entry would change my mind about going out to play given all the costs of running the landy in the 1st place, but everyone's different.

I do think we've seen a lot of the "disposable" off-roaders leave the scene, the guys who used to turn up in £500 range rovers or SJ's with a short MOT for a bit of a rag round. Whether that's bad for the scene or not I don't know - it's less people through the gate but do they add anything other than muppet recovery stories?

[GBMUD]

Chris, JST's Drive Round Days sound like what you want, to an extent, possibly too restrictive for you, but they are still an excellent day out.

Yup, have done a few in the past but my 110 is not suitable for his DRDs as I do not want to risk damage to the bodywork. Now that I have the 90 I expect to make at least one Bampton DRD this winter...

Don't know if you know chris, but quite a few (maybe all) shires events have something like a photo punch challenge to do if you so wish. Personally I like the just driving round stuff, but I also enjoy the challenge of 'having' to get in/out/through somewhere and the punches give that

I did not know, but that is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind - something to give purpose to ones off-roading.

Personally I think £35 is not bad for a day out, it's not even half a tank of fuel these days, and it's a lot less than stuff like track days. I'm not sure a fiver either way on event entry would change my mind about going out to play given all the costs of running the landy in the 1st place, but everyone's different.

I do think we've seen a lot of the "disposable" off-roaders leave the scene, the guys who used to turn up in £500 range rovers or SJ's with a short MOT for a bit of a rag round. Whether that's bad for the scene or not I don't know - it's less people through the gate but do they add anything other than muppet recovery stories?

While the £35 is not a huge amount, it is almost twice as much as £20. Perhaps it is just my Welsh blood talking, but paying the 'extra' £15 seems a lot more than just paying a straight £35. Just my feeling on it - difficult to express in words.

I have noticed a lot less off the £500 sh**ters at 4x4driving.co.uk's Slindon and Boxgrove playdays too. I doubt that we have seen the last of them though, given a few years of economic recovery...

Chris

[FridgeFreezer]

Chris, I can see what you're saying and yes, if you want to do an assortment of pay-and-plays with 5 different clubs in a 12-month period then you're going to end up paying a lot of membership subs for clubs you have no interest in for the other 364 days of the year, so "wasting" that extra cash. I've seen similar scenarios where people have to join a local club to enter their one big yearly challenge event, and it can add up quite quickly (and not everyone's prices are so reasonable).

However, from the point of view of a club (any club), they want you to come back - come to more than one play-day, come to other club events, socials, etc. and get involved because that is kinda the whole point of clubs - you get to know people, people help each other out and generally make friends and have a good time. The more you come back, the better value you get for your subs. Come to two play-days and you've paid £27.50 per day not £35, quite a discount

There is another point to this: the club is there to do what the members want (within reason) - If you want us to run events at different locations, do different stuff at events, or other stuff as a club that would get you and your mates coming to more events then we're all ears. We do invite comments and stuff although we're only contactable by e-mail, post, telephone, text-message, web form, at any club event, via this forum, and facebook so perhaps need to work on our accessibility

[MrKev]

I do think we've seen a lot of the "disposable" off-roaders leave the scene, the guys who used to turn up in £500 range rovers or SJ's with a short MOT for a bit of a rag round. Whether that's bad for the scene or not I don't know - it's less people through the gate but do they add anything other than muppet recovery stories?

As a recovery marshall at events, they do break up some of the monotony of a straightforward drive round day, especially when you're there for 10 hours! It's quite fun seeing these people 'ragging' round (so long as they do so safely ) as they usually get nicely mucky and often provide some more technical recovery challenges, which for me makes the days interesting.

Kev

[Bowie69]

Yup, have done a few in the past but my 110 is not suitable for his DRDs as I do not want to risk damage to the bodywork. Now that I have the 90 I expect to make at least one Bampton DRD this winter...

I seem to remember you at a Wellington DRD with a ever-so-slightly crushed rear corner...? I suggested the above with it in mind you now had a 90, maybe see you there soon

[Cynic-al]

I think you may see less scrappy racers as any 4x4 with an MOT is getting expensive, a friend bought a '95 jeep last year for £500, has run it for a year and just sold it for £1000. He's done the same with range rovers, discoveries etc etc. You can't just weigh a £1,000 truck in to get your money back!

My problem with club events is that they usually require road legal status, my local P&P site will let me in without, the truck would MOT with a few tweeks but the cost of MOT, tax and insurance is going to be atleast £600 per year on a vehicle that I will never use on the road. I would be quite happy for them to seriously scrutinise my vehicle for safety if they would consider it for an alternative.

How many clubs offer none driving activities? People may still want to be involved but avoid the driving due to cost? Might help keep peoples interest until things ease.

[FridgeFreezer]

Al - the MOT/Insurance thing is a good point, and as a club we've suffered a bit numbers-wise from insisting that trucks have MOT & insurance (we don't care about tax discs, that's just for the chancellor).

However, from a club point of view it makes a massive difference in keeping the scrappy racers away. I know lots of P&P sites let anything in, but they're in business.

An example of why we have the rule:

As a family club, we have people turning up with shiny trucks & kids & dogs etc. If someone in a £50 SJ with no insurance bangs into their Disco 3, it's a bit of a problem. Although the club has insurance, the club hasn't actually been involved in the incident - but the SJ doesn't have insurance and doesn't want to pay to fix a Disco 3, so there's then a difficult situation for someone to say the least. If we were being mercenary about it, we could say "not our problem", but that is a poor attitude for a club. Businesses of course do not have to care about this sort of thing as long as they have covered themselves.

Likewise, the MOT is a simple way of setting a minimum standard for trucks coming through the gate without the legal minefield (and massive PITA) of scrutineering every truck, arguing with the owners, etc. etc.

Yes it disadvantages a few genuine people with trailer-only trucks, but it makes life for the rest (including all the volunteers who run the club) that much easier and more pleasant. Ultimately the club is there to serve its members, not get as many trucks as possible through the gate.

[Cynic-al]

Fair comments. I ran into someones car with my truck once at a P&P and gave them the £400 to get the dealer to repair it, but I guess i'm one of the minority with such morals Out of interest how many people with road cars have insurance that cover them for offroad events, I know a lot of companies can be a bit funny about this.