reb78 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Just changed the TREs and drop arm ball joint on my 1989 110. Phoned a local place regarding checking the tracking and they insisted that they need to do a four wheel geometry check on it (rather than just a front wheel alignment) as the rear 'tracking' is adjustable on these. Unless i'm mistaken, there is nothing to adjust on the rear and it is just a case of tracking the fronts correctly with the steering centred?? They also that the job would take 2 hours and cost £75. Think i'll find a flat bit of ground and use the string method in the tech archive unless anyone else suggests otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 They're talking rubbish. No adjustment possible on the rear, except a bent axle or loose wheel bearings I use the string method, that or a pole of known length between the front and rear of the wheel rims. Set it either dead ahead or a degree or two toe out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 They're talking rubbish. No adjustment possible on the rear, except a bent axle or loose wheel bearings I use the string method, that or a pole of known length between the front and rear of the wheel rims. Set it either dead ahead or a degree or two toe out. Thanks. I just wanted to check i wasnt missing something. When they insisted that adjustment was possible, i left the conversation there. I'll have to go into work at the weekend - the car park is nice and flat, so just right for setting this up with the string. I worry if i do it on my drive that its too bumpy and on a slope, so will make the measurements difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I'd be ever so tempted to drive down there and get them to actually show you how they would adjust the rear tracking on a solid axle!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 I'd be ever so tempted to drive down there and get them to actually show you how they would adjust the rear tracking on a solid axle!!! I feel like that! I even said on the phone that it was a solid axle, so there was nothing to adjust, but he still insisted that it could be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Those cheap thin extendable 'cafe' type net curtain rods are great for doing tracking - I keep an old Ikea one just for doing tracking. it's like a tube inside a tube - so you can slide it open it to the width of the rims at the rear, make a mark, then make another mark a mm or so further in so you can set up the tracking at the front of the rims. Bit more acurate than string and makes a quick job of it. Spose you could even use a stick in a bit of old pipe to the same effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur90 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I would imagine that a four wheel tracking check on a defender would throw up all sorts of errors as the back axel is probably not at right angles to the chassis due to rubber bushes and the + or - a quarter of an inch precision used to weld the brackets onto the chassis. Would then be interesting to see how they proposed to correct it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 String is quite accurate enough Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Those cheap thin extendable 'cafe' type net curtain rods are great for doing tracking - I keep an old Ikea one just for doing tracking. it's like a tube inside a tube - so you can slide it open it to the width of the rims at the rear, make a mark, then make another mark a mm or so further in so you can set up the tracking at the front of the rims. Bit more acurate than string and makes a quick job of it. Spose you could even use a stick in a bit of old pipe to the same effect. Just thought. Only one end of my old track rod is knackered. I can use the other end and a threaded bar to make an adjustable pole for this job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Would then be interesting to see how they proposed to correct it. Probably something to do with proposing a big bill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boro Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 If you want a chuckle when i took the disco in for tracking after replacing all the rod ends the chap was there trying to track it on the arm from the drop link to the axle, i kept telling him you need to adjust the rear link between the two hubs, in the end i ended up doing it myself in front of him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 If you want a chuckle when i took the disco in for tracking after replacing all the rod ends the chap was there trying to track it on the arm from the drop link to the axle, i kept telling him you need to adjust the rear link between the two hubs, in the end i ended up doing it myself in front of him In my years of owning cars, I've some across so many garages that dont know how to use the tracking equipment that i have little faith in most of them. The phone call this morning has made me lose yet more faith! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litch Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I have used Just Tyres in Milton Keynes for years and they are very good, checks are free and if adjustment is required they charge £20 or a McDonalds meal (depends on what time you go in). Once after replacing the TRE's I couldn't be bothered to drive into town and got the local garage to do it but afterwards it didn't feel 'quite right' so I popped into JT next time I was passing and they found it was very slightly out so they adjusted it and I got my money back from the local garage. I truely believe that it is important to get the tracking spot on as it makes a real difference to tyre wear and on a vehicle that is correctly set up a significant difference to the feel of the steering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutz Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 i did mine with the string method, and when i took it to have it checked it was 1mm out, and as most, check is free adjustment they charge for. So it was almost spot on and no charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 I truely believe that it is important to get the tracking spot on as it makes a real difference to tyre wear and on a vehicle that is correctly set up a significant difference to the feel of the steering. I agree, but its such a lottery finding somewhere that will set it up properly. Do you go to another garage to check the first? How do you know the second garage is right? At least with the string or the rod technique, YOU know that it is pretty much spot on. From today, I've given up trusting other people with this job. Just to confirm, if i'm setting 1mm toe out using a rod to measure between the wheels, it needs to be 1mm shorter at the back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Yep Or 1mm longer at the front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Blades Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Out of interest. Whay do Defenders have small toe out when many 2wd cars have toe in ? My understanding is that it was something to do with the desire to tend to straight ahead if the steering wheel was let go. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I was under the impression that it's to do with whether the front wheels are driven. If they're driven then toe out, to allow for a very minimal flex of the axle/swivels/steering etc. when driving torque is applied to the road. If the wheels are not driven then they get 'dragged' backwards by the road by a small degree, so toe in is applied. For this reason I was told toe out on a Defender (permanent 4wd) and toe in on a Series (effectively 2wd on the rear wheels most of the time). Most 2wd cars have independent suspension and rack-and-pinion steering so that may have to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GUNSON-TRAKRITE-LASER-BEAM-WHEEL-ALIGNMENT-GAUGE-77113-/390348029514?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item5ae28e3e4a try This.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 http://www.ebay.co.u...=item5ae28e3e4a try This.... Thats interesting - its been a long time coming too, something affordable and accurate (if a bit fiddly bt the looks of it). Did it with the string yesterday in the end and all ok now. I can see why HFH used electrical wire in the tech archive thread though - i had 'furry' string and it made it difficult to tell when it was/wasnt touching the tyre! Might pick up one of the gunson fits up at some point though. I guess it can be used on all cars to track the front up and the string to get the wheel centred. For those using rods to measure between the wheels, does it have any effect that you cannot get to the exact centre of the wheel - i.e. to measure the distance level with the axle front and back. The radius arms are in the way at the back and i forget what was at the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I watched a video of how to use it and was quite shocked at just how un fiddly it appeared to be, on my Christmas list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I has got one, it is a doddle to use. 2-3 mins to check. £85 from trackace mine had free P+P Trackace hold the actual patent. It is sold under licence by gunsons? the only other similar units by sealey etc are £300+ Did an LDV after the kingpins and it was 2 degrees toe out. It had worn a set of front tyres out in 3000 miles. Now adjusted 2 mins toe in. Much nicer drive (for an LDV) and the wobble has gone at 60 (top speed). And the tyre wear is now even. String is fine for rough check straight ahead, but if you want a bit of toe in or out you need one of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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