IVA advice for Lightweight.

[Outrage]

Hey all,

I'm just interested in lnowing if anyone has successfully got their lightweight through an IVA.

Top and bottom of it is that I have a Lighweight, I have been tinkering with it that long (7 years), that now it's finally complete and in good working order I'm now of the opinion with the changes from SVA to IVA and all the hoops you have to jump through that I have no hope of getting it back on the road.

Modifications:

Replacement Engine - 2.5NAD

Replacement Chassis (donor from another vehicle) including change to engine mount drivers side.

Remanufactured Bulkhead incorporating remanufactured dash.

New suspension components.

Modifications to bulkhead, includes modified dashboard.

rebuilt bodywork including rear tub, seat box, externally resembles original vehicle but method of fabrication different.

(the website on my signiture gives you the general idea, but is several years out of date)

The above mods mean its lost its original identity and hence needs to go through a test.

I've read about the first third of the test document and as far as I can tell there is no way a stock lightweight would possibly pass due to (so far)...

mirrors wrong shape

External projections - how can a square vehicle possibly pass?

Internal projections - as above

fuel tank (filled from the interior)

the list goes on....

Do I carry on and attempt an IVA, or bite the bullet and scrap it? On the subject of scrapping it - how do I scrap a vehicle that is no longer the same as the log book, this seems like as big a pain as getting it through an SVA!

ALTERNATIVELTY - Is a 2.0 Litre Mondeo capable and legal for towing a trailor loaded with the Landrover so I can trailer it to weekend club outings?

any advice will be appreciated.

Cheers,

Lee

[Jon White]

Well it looks to me that the only thing you've done that actually requires an inspection is to use a second hand chassis. So the first question is do you have a visible chassis number? If not then I'd suggest stamping your chassis number onto the new chassis, mot'ing it, and driving it!

Any of the changes you have done have no impact on it whatsoever.

Jon

[ejparrott]

I can't see you've done anything else either...remanufacturered bulkheads are ok, they're still lightweights....don't think mirrors are part of it, if your suspension components are like-for-like thats fine....

it sounds as though you're over-concerned, rather like I was when I planned my 109 project.

[Bowie69]

I wouldn't say you are being over-concerned, worst case if you had an accident and killed someone in your vehicle and it was found you SHOULD have submitted it for inspection then you could well end up in jail -not something anyone wishes for I am sure.

The IVA is no more stringent than the old SVA BTW, with most of the rules just carried forward. The main change was the classification of the vehicles, which under SVA ruling you would never pass as a radically altered vehicle, but under IVA you may well....

First off my advice is to ring the IVA helpline, they are pretty knowledgable, there's an enquiry email address as well if you look on the business link website, I have used this and had full frank and very helpful replies from the advisers -they are not just telephone monkeys for sure.

This link seems pretty relevant to you:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/Registeringakitcarrebuildorradicallyalteredvehicle/DG_191069

Vehicles built from a mix of new or used parts

To keep the original registration number of a car or light van that has been rebuilt you will need to use either of the following:

the original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell

a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit – monocoque) of the same specification as the original supported by evidence from the dealer or manufacturer (eg receipt)

You will also need to have two other major components from the original vehicle.

These can be any of the following:

suspension (front and back)

steering assembly

axles (both)

transmission

engine

If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is used, a car or light van must pass Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA) or Single Vehicle Approval (SVA). If your vehicle passes a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated. If the vehicle fails it cannot be registered.

Pretty damned clear cut there -you will require an IVA and a Q plate. This is not a bad thing.

Good news, if you re-read the IVA manual/guide you will see that your vehicle will go through as modified production vehicle, and any items which are as the original vehicle was are assumed as a pass. My RRC for example would not pass a type approval or 'new vehicle' IVA, but it will pass a 'radically altered/modified production vehicle' IVA no problem, as the front of the vehicle will be treated as original and therefore no subject to testing. The same will go for your lightweight.

The other thing is... don't make life hard for yourself, mine will be going for IVA with no roll cage fitted, no extra lights, no winches/hawse/fairlead. This is not circumventing the rules as you don't need to test a vehicle just because you fit a winch, or a cage do you?

The bad news is the test is probably £450, as you probably know, but if you factor it into the whole build cost I am sure it is small!

Once you have spoken to VOSA, if you still intend on IVAing it, they'll probably ask for it in writing, make it as clear as possible and include plenty of photos of the build if possible, if you are open about everything they are less likely to 'dig'.

Hope that helps,

Pete.

[FridgeFreezer]

I'll second what Jon etc. said - you're not "getting away with" anything, it's still the same lightweight made of LR parts, with a few repairs. IVAing would be a world of unnecessary pain.

[Bowie69]

Fridge, did you read that link I posted?

As the vehicle has used a SECOND HAND replacement chassis it is required to have an IVA. The fact it is modified is neither here nor there, but the fact it is second hand is the issue.

The other way to do it is say the chassis-donor-vehicle's chassis is the current vehicle ID, which would be legal and not require an IVA, but if the original vehicle was tax exempt (as I suspect here) you would lose that status.

If the vehicle had been built on a NEW chassis from Richards for example just stamp your number in it and go MOT it.

[FridgeFreezer]

Fridge, did you read that link I posted?

Nope, nor did I look very closely at where the chassis came from, nor would anyone else unless something was dodgy about the vehicle as a whole. It's an old land rover that's been kept going with a load of assorted parts, most of them are like that.

[Daan]

Do you have the v5 with the replacement chassis? In that case you could use that and all will be fine. The second hand chassis rule is new to me, I was under the impression that if the type of chassis was correct it would be ok. I reckon if you were to build it like that you would need to turn up for a vehicle inspection for the vosa to decide what is needed. They than would decide your car is close enough to the original spec to make you keep your original registration. The IVA/SVA sounds way too much effort for your case.

Daan

[TheRecklessEngineer]

IIRC, military chassis do not have a chassis number stamped on. Certainly I know of many ex-mod 109s with no chassis number, other than what was rivited on the driver's side of the seatbox.

I suggest having a hunt around for a chassis number, if there isn't one, stamp your own on.

There's nothing dangerous going on here - it's still an 88" lightweight, made from lightweight parts. It's just the identity that might have changed. An IVA is OTT IMHO.

Worst case, I'd expect an inspection to confirm that you haven't just re-plated a stolen vehicle.

[Bowie69]

Last post and I will leave the ostriches to their desert dinner.

I note from your site you used a rust-free chassis from a Cyrpiot Lightweight -nice find! According to the rules above, the easiest way of doing this is for your Lightweight to have the identity of that Cypriot Lightweight -this is of course assuming you have a chassis number/identity proof from Craddocks -it may need to have been registered at some point as well. I have checked my own lightweight chassis just now and found no number on the dumb iron, but of course yours may be different.

You can ignore all the bodywork/interior changes, these do not count towards a requirement for IVA.

All you can really do is write to DVLA/VOSA explaining what you have done and wait for their response, it may result in an VIC, or an IVA, or a VIC followed by an IVA depending on how clued up the people you deal with are.

An IVA is OTT IMHO.

It migth be OTT, but it might also be the legal requirement, you know, like having a driving licence, insurance or working lights on your vehicle

.

[Outrage]

Hey all thanks for the comments so far, they make interesting reading and good advice on both options however, here are a few points to clarify the original post:

Yes the chassis is second hand, was purchassed from one of the well known Landrover Parts/Breakers firms. I do not have the V5, just a non descript receipt for the chassis. The Chassis has had the drivers side engine mount removed and a new one fitted to land the 2.5D engine, other than that it's original and in good order. It does have a chassis number. I have no details of the age of the original vehicle and have no intentions of registering it as tax exempt, It was simply replaced due to the fact that the original one was bent and rotten.

The bulkhead consists of only the original goal post, the sheet metal work including the footwells, transmission tunnel and protruding dash have been fabricated from scratch, from the outside it looks the same but internally it would immediately be recognised by a Landrover owner as being unoriginal.

I was also given the replacement engine, which is a 2.5 NAD of which the original was the same, however I have no supporting documentation regarding the engines origin and I'm no longer in contact with the orginal owner.

When I purchassed both the chassis and took on board the engine I was young and stupid with no clear path of how I was going to deal with the paperwork side of the build, the regulation changes just made a bad bit of planning even worse.

The top and bottom of it is that, although I'm confident of the build quality of the vehicle, as Bowie said earlier I don't want to end up in court with prosecution arguing the case that someone was injured or worse and spin it to make it seem like the reason was that it wasn't properly registered / built / a cut and shut etc, we all know how simple things can be made to look 10 times worse in front of a jury.

Again thanks all for the comments, Bowie, thanks for raising the other perspective, I'll have a look at the links and follow up.

Any other point of view?

[Steve Hiatt]

The top and bottom of it is that, although I'm confident of the build quality of the vehicle, as Bowie said earlier I don't want to end up in court with prosecution arguing the case that someone was injured or worse and spin it to make it seem like the reason was that it wasn't properly registered / built / a cut and shut etc, we all know how simple things can be made to look 10 times worse in front of a jury.

They can, however in the only significant court case of that kind involving a LR the case was based around the vehicle being unsafe, not that it should have had an SVA. If a vehicle is shown to be dangerous following a fatality then you're in trouble no matter what paperwork you have. The lack of an SVA/IVA will not contribute to a fatality, just poor workmanship/maintenance.

I'm with FF, it sounds as genuine as most old Landys.