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chadler

TD5 Bulkhead

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I've been offered a TD5 bulkhead, and am tempted to take it as the one on my 200tdi/LT77 defender is tatty around the footwells. My question is this. Will it be a case of a straight swap? i.e will the floor plates and transmission tunnel fit onto it correctly? I don't want to change any of the tunnel as i have a moulded mat in the cab which i don't want to chop or lose.

Also, will the steering column assembly and pedals swap straight over? or would it make more sense to fit the Td5 setup anyway as the old fitments are looking a bit tired.

Are there any other differences that i might have not thought about to be concerned about?

Many thanks in advance

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I'm pretty sure it isn't a straight swap - I'm virtually certain that 300 ones have a different tunnel to older models, and the Td5 may even be different to a 300. I don't know about any other differences but I am almost certain you would need to mess about with the tunnel. Somebody may prove me wrong of course :)

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I'm pretty sure it isn't a straight swap - I'm virtually certain that 300 ones have a different tunnel to older models, and the Td5 may even be different to a 300. I don't know about any other differences but I am almost certain you would need to mess about with the tunnel. Somebody may prove me wrong of course :)

hmm, thats what i was leaning towards suspecting. thanks for the quick answer. I resisted the temptation to post this in the international forum like everything else seems to be, but hopefully there'll be a definitive answer coming along soon.

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tunnel should be the same as Td5 & 300TDi use the same maingearbox R380, perhaps the section that fits under the fusebox is different.

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tunnel should be the same as Td5 & 300TDi use the same maingearbox R380, perhaps the section that fits under the fusebox is different.

thanks Ralph, do you think then that there might be an option to bolt the 200tdi tunnel and floorplates to the 300tdi/td5 bulkhead or is there a fundamental difference is the shape of the footwells and lower dash panels preventing this?

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thanks Ralph, do you think then that there might be an option to bolt the 200tdi tunnel and floorplates to the 300tdi/td5 bulkhead or is there a fundamental difference is the shape of the footwells and lower dash panels preventing this?

I think there is a difference, but how much and whether it could be overcome by some "creative metalworking" I'm not sure :)

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Looking in my EPC drivers & passenger side floor plates for Tdi vehicles is the same part numbers as Td5 items, gearbox tunnel for R380/300TDi vehicles is the same too, 200Tdi has a dofferent part number [probably superseded by the later number] without seeing both side by side it's hard to tell, could just be some minor differences.

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Looking in my EPC drivers & passenger side floor plates for Tdi vehicles is the same part numbers as Td5 items, gearbox tunnel for R380/300TDi vehicles is the same too, 200Tdi has a dofferent part number [probably superseded by the later number] without seeing both side by side it's hard to tell, could just be some minor differences.

When i bought new floor plates last year, i know i had to specify whether they were for an lt77 set up or R380, but i'm hoping that this is due to the shape of the transmission tunnel and not the forward edge where they meet the footwells. The tunnel is 2 piece, and hopfully the front piece (arch piece shall we call it) that bolts under the fusebox is what determines which transmission tunnel (the bit with the hole for the gearstick) can be fitted, and that an lt77 arch piece can bolt onto the later r380 bulkhead.

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The dash trim will need cutting around the td5 wiper motor mounting.

The top dash supports need trimming so that the earlier wiper mechanisim will fit.

The lower dash panel and wiper motor captives aren't there, but its easy enough to put some rivnuts in.

As for the floors they will fit to the bulkhead but you'll have to cut the center out of your old bulkhead,just the bit around the lip for the trans tunnel. This then needs welding (or riviting) to the new bulkhead after you've chopped the lip off that one.

Everthing other than these is more or less plain sailing :D

Hope this helps.

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The dash trim will need cutting around the td5 wiper motor mounting.

The top dash supports need trimming so that the earlier wiper mechanisim will fit.

The lower dash panel and wiper motor captives aren't there, but its easy enough to put some rivnuts in.

As for the floors they will fit to the bulkhead but you'll have to cut the center out of your old bulkhead,just the bit around the lip for the trans tunnel. This then needs welding (or riviting) to the new bulkhead after you've chopped the lip off that one.

Everthing other than these is more or less plain sailing :D

Hope this helps.

Ok, thanks. so it is do-able. The bulkhead is galvanised so i don't want to be cutting or welding it, but by the sounds of of it i can modify the tunnel lip to suit as opposed to hacking the bulkhead around too much

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like you mentiuoned earlier though why dont you just leave the TD5 bulkhead as it is and swap straight over an only modify the tunnel and floor plates where needbe? any adjustments to tunnel would have to marry through to the fron part of your seat box would it not?

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like you mentiuoned earlier though why dont you just leave the TD5 bulkhead as it is and swap straight over an only modify the tunnel and floor plates where needbe? any adjustments to tunnel would have to marry through to the fron part of your seat box would it not?

Well thats the plan, not to have to chop the bulkhead as it's galvanised, and not to have to mess about with the tunnel dimensions as the moulded matting system was a little too pricy for my liking to start "modifying"... If i can get the two to mate without changing proportions of either then it's a goer. and from the responses i think i should be able to get away with changing how the tunnel attaches to the bulkhead, rather than changing it's physical shape.

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i think you will find that the td5 bulkhead has a bigger tunnel lip than the lt77 tunnel lip. therefore it will be missing a bit, as when the lt77 tunnel if offered up there will be a gap in the veritcal plane of the bulkhead if that makes sense.

there is a hell of a difference between floor mats on the tunnel side for R380 and lt77 and this is reflacted on the bulkhead tunnel meet.

if the LT77 was bigger than R380 tunnel wise it wouldnt be an issue but its smaller therefore you get a gap.

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If you found yourself trying to sell the moulded mat thingy for an LT77 vehicle, you'd have no problem shifting it - I'd be interested.

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thanks everyone for their input, since new lt77 (wide apperture tunnel) bulkheads are unavailable, but R380 ones are relatively common and thus cheap, i'm going to go for one of them and then modify it to the earlier spec, not too hard a job it seems. What i do want is a galvanised bulkhead however, and i want to do the mods pre-galv. So does anyone know of a galvanising firm in the south east (surrey / hampshire preferably) that would shot blast a new bulkhead back to bare metal, prep and galv for a not-frightening-scale fee?

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Yeh, I'm keen to see the outcome of this too.

Could a later TD5/300 b/head be fitted with the relevent 380 tunnel bits over a 200/lt77? If not lots of pics of the mods to mate with the lt77 tunnel please or info on pattern tdi200 bulkheads.

Chadler, I've used a shotblasters in Gosport I can get details of but they don't do galv :(

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I have fitted a 300tdi bulkhead to my 110 a few months ago. As it was the r380 tunnel piece can be unbolted and the relavent bit for the lt77 put on so that it matches up with the lt77 tunnle.

I seem to remeber that the td5 ones dont have this as its all pressed as one (though i could well be wrong)

i had to do no other mods to make it fit.

Edd

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Could a later TD5/300 b/head be fitted with the relevent 380 tunnel bits over a 200/lt77? If not lots of pics of the mods to mate with the lt77 tunnel please or info on pattern tdi200 bulkheads.

I think that the answer to all of the different set-up's lies in engine location, the reason the lt77-era bulkhead had a wider "saddle" is due to the engine location being closer to vehicle centre, the bellhousing sits directly under the bulkhead. On a later vehicle, the engine and thus bellhousing is further forward, allowing a narrower saddle on the bulkhead. Now, all LT77 and R380 90's have identical gearbox placement, as indicated by them all sharing rear prop length. the following conclusions can thus be made:

200tdi engine or earlier on standard mounts are all considered "rearward engines", and thus will have the earlier "wide-saddled" bulkhead.

The introduction of the 300tdi also saw the R380 introduced, the 'box sits in the same place, but the engine sits further forward, and thus although the bellhousing is longer, the "bell" sits foward of the bulkhead, allowing a narrower saddle.

KNOWN

200tdi (factory) + LT77 = wide saddle b/h (LT77 tunnel)

200tdi + (short bellhousing) + R380 = wide saddle b/h, and can use original LT77 tunnel.

300tdi (factory) + R380 = narrow saddle b/h (R380 tunnel)

300tdi (on 200tdi mounts) + (short bellhousing) + LT77 = wide saddle b/h (LT77 tunnel)

THEORETICALLY:

200tdi (on 300tdi mounts) + long bellhousing + R380 or LT77 = narrow saddle bulkhead (R380 tunnel)

Hopefully the above is correct, if memory is correct Ralph (western) runs a 200tdi / R380 setup). Ralph, do you have:

1)standard "rear" 200tdi location?

2)short bellhousing?

3)wide saddle bulkhead?

4)LT77 tunnel?

According to the bible, ALR6374 is the early (RHD) wide-saddle bulkhead, and i've not been able to find one anywhere.

Some sites say that it has been superceded by ALR9946, and although rare, is available for about £900!

ALR2136 I think is the later narrow-saddle bulkhead.

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I have fitted a 300tdi bulkhead to my 110 a few months ago. As it was the r380 tunnel piece can be unbolted and the relavent bit for the lt77 put on so that it matches up with the lt77 tunnle.

I seem to remeber that the td5 ones dont have this as its all pressed as one (though i could well be wrong)

i had to do no other mods to make it fit.

Edd

Interesting, so there might be three flavours out there:

Early Wide saddle

Early type with R380 adapter plate bolted in place of LT77 one

Td5 era, Narrow saddle pressed-design

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Dont know if its of any help but here the best pic at the moment i can find of the bulkhead without any of the tunnle in place.

gallery_1018_104_24647.jpg

The row of square holes are what the lt77/r380 adaptor plate bit ataches to.

This part of the bulkhead was exactly the same as the bulkhead that came off which was a a 1983 2.1/4 diesle one

Edd.

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Hopefully the above is correct, if memory is correct Ralph (western) runs a 200tdi / R380 setup). Ralph, do you have:

1)standard "rear" 200tdi location?

2)short bellhousing?

3)wide saddle bulkhead?

4)LT77 tunnel?

to answer the above questions, my 1989 110 was originally a 2.5TD/LT77 combination, about 10 years ago, it became a 200Tdi/LT77 for about 1 year then I replaced the ageing LT77 with a R380 so now I have -----

1. a factory standard rear [mid] mounted 200Tdi engine on the orginal 2.5TD mounts

2. a short bell housing [it's 11cm overall length] [iIRC the orignal LT77 part FRC9865]

3. the original built 'wide saddle' bulkhead

4.the original LT77 gearbox tunnel -- as far as I'm aware.

hope that helps :i-m_so_happy:

Edited by western

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