Adrian and Pauls new truck

[elbekko]

I may be used the wrong words. Up travel with axle horizontal is limited by the bump stops. Articulation is limted by the bind in the radius arm bushes. I have assumed the bushes are shot, therefore place the shock such that once it hits the bump stop on one stide when articulated that the shock on the lower side limits articulation before the shock on the high side bottoms out.

Does this explain it?

Adrian

I see, yes, in that case it's probably best to have some extra clearance there.

[dirtydiesel]

Any more updates?

[B reg 90]

Dan,

Progress has meandered along. Pictures for the sake of pictures:

I finished the dimple dies. They make an impressive stack of metal:

And one in action:

Ben (6 year old son) fancied a hour or two in the garage helping Dad and using his tools, so he helped with the dimple dieing;

I then discovered that my folding allowance wasn't quite right for the bottom folded back web. So I set up the mill to take 2mm off:

Then the front shock towers were finished. Ciders were drunk, sadly on my own as no one else in the house could give monkey's... (watching bloody reality TV)

I was happy though. I know where there are two mistakes. But for my first sheet metal structures I am fairly impressed.

I then made a start on the rear towers. They look identical, but in reality are a slightly different profile. CAD drawing was sent off and folded profiles recieved back. Their breeding.......

I then needed a mount for the coil overs on to the axles, so knocked up these (still to be welded):

I then moved onto the hydro steering ram mount. Again drew this up in CAD and emailed off the drawing. This is from S355 structural plate and the profilers did the folding.

I then milled the ram mount to drop it down as much as possible (clearance on full bump against the engine driven hydro pump) and milled off the from edge at 45 degrees to get it to fit as close to the axle as possible, like so..

Final mission was revised radius arm mounts for the axle. This is rev 3...... However I am incorperating the axle end of the panhard rod mount. It will look something like this:

Paul is TIG'ing on some reinforcing washers for the bolt holes, then these will be drilled and reamed to size for the bolts.

Adrian

[discomark10]

Wow love the sheet work! How much was it to get the turrets done for example? Also what did you use to bend it all up after, a special press like obect or just a normal hydraulic (jack) jobbie?

[steve200TDi]

Excellent progress!

It reminds me of when I recieved my jigsaw puzzle of funny shaped pieces of plate for my rear winch bumper!

Steve

[dirtyninety]

Wow love the sheet work! How much was it to get the turrets done for example? Also what did you use to bend it all up after, a special press like obect or just a normal hydraulic (jack) jobbie?

I then made a start on the rear towers. They look identical, but in reality are a slightly different profile. CAD drawing was sent off and folded profiles recieved back. Their breeding.......

I then moved onto the hydro steering ram mount. Again drew this up in CAD and emailed off the drawing. This is from S355 structural plate and the profilers did the folding.

Discomark10 try and read and not just look at the shiny pictures

[B reg 90]

Wow love the sheet work! How much was it to get the turrets done for example? Also what did you use to bend it all up after, a special press like obect or just a normal hydraulic (jack) jobbie?

A flat shock tower profile including supply of material (S275 structural plate) worked out as £25 for the front towers. I got the folding done elsewhere at that point as I didn't think to ask if they could fold (doh!!!).

The rear towers I got material, profiling and folding in one. But also got loads of other profiles done at the same time (£300 bill...).

Lazer profiling is excellent though. Makes your grinder virtually redundant. The thought of marking out, grinding, filing, etc is now very unattractive. You can also be more adventurous with the shapes. I am also getting a bit more confident with drawing up in cad and just going for it. However I have had to model the full chassis and axles to get to that point! 1st few times I did cardboard mock ups to 'see' the outcome.

Adrian

[dirtydiesel]

Dan,

Progress has meandered along. Pictures for the sake of pictures:

I finished the dimple dies. They make an impressive stack of metal:

[img=http://forums.lr4x4.com/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif] dimple die tower.JPG

When you made you dimple dies Adrian, what thickness of the material did you make them for.

I borrowed some a few years ago but they were made for 1mm and they didn't make a nice job of 3mm.

[B reg 90]

Dan,

Designed them for 3mm - this job. In reality to get a crisp edge you need to design for the thicknees to be bent. If I had 1mm to bend I'd make a new 1/2 of the die with the radius that the chamfer starts at adjusted for the thickness of the sheet to be dimpled.

I only used EN1A steel, ie. free machining and fairly soft. However they worked perfectly and there are no marks on the faces. I think if you wanted to do 1000's you'd need a hardened set.

Adrian

[Jamie_grieve]

Fantastic build thread. I have a pair of PTO winches I did consider putting motors on. They are 63:1 I think, one Fairey and one Superwinch.

Very similar construction to yours. I have the preload on the clutch set at 90 Nm and used one for many years in all gears in all conditions and never had a problem. I think your 20hp is quite conservative.

I also have some portal axles laying about and the engine already sits back to accept a pump. Hmmmm.....

Have you any more details on your pump drive setup?

What would your 'ideal' setup be that you mention earlier?

[B reg 90]

The pictures have disapeared of my first two posts so thought I'd re post:

The master plan was initially to improve the winch by changing from a direct drive from the transferbox to a hydraulic pump driven off the crank. As you will shortly see the job developed a slight element of mission creep and grew arms and legs.....

1st we stripped the green,white and yellow Breg 90. In the mean time there was a good event coming up. So we fitted the axles, tyres and winch to the blue 90 (only 2.5 non turbo diesel) and went off to play.....

In the mean time we endded up deciding that the chassis on the B reg 90 was not as good as we had thought (it had had a genuine LR replacement chassis in the early 90's). So we stripped down the blue 90 below..

At this point I got a bit carried away and decided that I needed more power and better axles. So the BMW M57 was sourced and I bought some volvo C303 portals........

Once we had picked 38.5" boggers we decided that the wheel base needed increasing. So the back axle went back 5.5", the front forward 2" giving a true 100" wheel base.

We started at the back and chopped off the rear chassis at the spring hangers. Paul (my brother) fabbed up some straight chassis rails and a winch tray. This was linked with the existing chopped back rear body like so:

Rear winch mock up:

Finished rear end:

And reposting M57 engine words and pictures:

If your going for a M57 diesel the standard lr gear boxes don't by all accounts cut it. Niel at Rakeway ended up with a big chunk of my cash to build a tremec TKO to fit between the BMW and a LT230. To get the wheel to winch speed right there is also an ashcroft underdrive. As the underdrive and tremec are brand new it seemd a bit if a shame to fit any old LT230, so a recon unit form ashcroft arrived.... The fully assembled unit looked very shiney.....

mmmm M57....

Tremec TKO, LT230 and underdrive:

The clutch release is a concentric unit operating a uprated clutch on a custom Rakeway flywheel. Release unit was rotated to the correct orientation after this picture was taken...

The next mission was to get the gear box in the car. We decided to keep the normal rear prop length as we didn't want to end up with a binding prop. So as I'd allready spent a few £££ a shortened rear LT230 output assembly for Rakeway was hardly going to make much differance.... This shortens the output shaft by 2.5". So coupled with the 5" move backwards on the rear axle this allowed the transferbox/gearbox/engine to be moved back 8".

Gearbox in and bulkhead cut:

Engine lifted in:

[B reg 90]

And reposting Air intake mods:

We then moved onto the engine. It's from a 530d car. You can use the same engine from a 330d car, an X5 or a L322 range rover. However you need the car sump. We wieghed the engine with all the ancliaries (except the starter motor) and it was 210 Kg.

The black plastic assembly above the turbo is the air box. It's not water tight, so it met an early death with a dremmel and was cut off. The air filter will be remotely mounted some where. Only issue with this is that the air box has a plastic air line across to the inlet manifold. The air flow meter is built into this. As it is oval you can't out hoses onto either end. However a quick trip to a scrap yard that has a 2.5 liter straight 6 vauxhall omega will get you a airflow meter housing that is round and the M57 AFM element will fit right in. You can just put the hoses on the end of the AFM, but there is no 'step' to stop the hoses from blowing off. So I machined some adaptors out of a piece of aluminium round bar...

[B reg 90]

Fantastic build thread. I have a pair of PTO winches I did consider putting motors on. They are 63:1 I think, one Fairey and one Superwinch.

Very similar construction to yours. I have the preload on the clutch set at 90 Nm and used one for many years in all gears in all conditions and never had a problem. I think your 20hp is quite conservative.

I also have some portal axles laying about and the engine already sits back to accept a pump. Hmmmm.....

Have you any more details on your pump drive setup?

What would your 'ideal' setup be that you mention earlier?

James,

Looking at the thread I appear not to have posted anything on the front end set up.

I always wanted the hydrualic pump to run off the engine before the clutch. So in practise this is at the front. I modifed the center of the vibration damper to create a drive flange and bolted up a mini prop. I then made a drive flange for the hydraulic pump by getting a splined drive from a hydraulic supplier and press fiting into the drive flange. It's secured with 4 hardened pins at the interferance fit, 1/2 in the flange, 1/2 in the splined tube.

Paul fabbed up a front winch tray and we started mocking up. We didn't do fancy CAD at this point.

A bit of Cardboard Aided Design:

And the winch and pump mount was in:

Pump in and showing mini prop:

And a top view showing the winch and pump next to each other:

[Daan]

dimple dieing action.JPG

Adrian/paul, looking good. One comment on the holes; they always look pimpin, the correct name in the trade for them is 'speedholes'.

Daan

[tacr2man]

you dont have any more of those afm adapters do you ? as will be needing to do the same shortly myself ? What was ballpark on the tremec without underdrive ? I looked at 380 option but VFM was not the best with upgrades and projected longevity. I am currently going lt85 with a modded p38 dse bellhousing ! Are you staying with M57 engine mountings with an adapter , your mountings look very nice but was unable to work out exactly what you are doing with them ?

by the way what is m57 length from bell housing face to front of viscous fan , if you have such info ?

[B reg 90]

you dont have any more of those afm adapters do you ? as will be needing to do the same shortly myself ? What was ballpark on the tremec without underdrive ? I looked at 380 option but VFM was not the best with upgrades and projected longevity. I am currently going lt85 with a modded p38 dse bellhousing ! Are you staying with M57 engine mountings with an adapter , your mountings look very nice but was unable to work out exactly what you are doing with them ?

by the way what is m57 length from bell housing face to front of viscous fan , if you have such info ?

AFM - I made them myself, so no spares I'm afraid.

Tremec - Cost me £3950 ish + VAT. Not much cheapness here. This covered:

new TKO500

New P38 bellhousing

Rakeway flywheel

AP racing 9.5 organic clutch and pressure plate assembly

concentric clutch release bearing

Aliminum adaptor to go between the P38 bell housing and gearbox

new custom 5th gearhousing so the the LT230 bolted up

Resplining tremec outputshaft to suit LT230 input gear (I should have got the LT230 input gear EDM'd out to suit the tremec output shaft...)

Add recon LT203 and underdrive and a short output shaft for the LT230 to the mix and it was a few £££. I told the girlfriend about the cost of this, 'if thats what you want to spend your money on dear' was the response. When it was delivered all shiney in a crate she had moved in. 'whats this and how much did it cost' . Well she was fine with the idea 6 months ago, '£4600 including the VAT' was my ungaurded response - well she took it badly. Lesson learned, new stuff now delivered to my brothers.....

Engine mounts. We measured up the bolt holes on the engine and marked out and drilled some 4mm plate. Machined out some tube to take a narrow LR90 radius arm bush. A bit of tube made up the gap like so:

Same idea to link back to the chassis. This is the drivers side:

We later ended up dropping the engine and had to start again..... this time we had the mount plate for the engine lazer profiled.

M57 length. I don't have a measurement. Howeever the picture below shows the engine location relative to the normal axle position. The LT230 has been moved back 8", the tremec is supposed to be the same length as an R380:

Engine behind front axle. Axle moved forwards by 2" since then.

And a front view:

Adrian

[heath robinson]

There's room for two in there, surely!

[B reg 90]

For those that asked about lengths:

Tremec - 590mm, picture below:

And the M57 6 cylinder deisel is 695 mm from the front puly to the bellhousing mountign face.

Finally some welding pron from the weekend...

Adrian

[Bowie69]

Finally some welding pron from the weekend...

Welding pron.JPG

Adrian

That one went well didn't it!

Good work, no idea what it is though

[CwazyWabbit]

That one went well didn't it!

Good work, no idea what it is though

Bound to be a test piece .... test pieces always turn out the better than the actual job

[B reg 90]

That one went well didn't it!

Good work, no idea what it is though

It's the bottom edge of a front suspension tower. I'd love to say I did it, but it was Paul (Brother) who welded with his MIG.

Adrian

[B reg 90]

you dont have any more of those afm adapters do you ? as will be needing to do the same shortly myself ? What was ballpark on the tremec without underdrive ? I looked at 380 option but VFM was not the best with upgrades and projected longevity. I am currently going lt85 with a modded p38 dse bellhousing ! Are you staying with M57 engine mountings with an adapter , your mountings look very nice but was unable to work out exactly what you are doing with them ?

by the way what is m57 length from bell housing face to front of viscous fan , if you have such info ?

Tacr2man,

I'm getting some more profiling ordered in the next week or so. Do you want me to price up some engine mount plates for the side of a M57 for you?

Adrian

[tacr2man]

Tacr2man,

I'm getting some more profiling ordered in the next week or so. Do you want me to price up some engine mount plates for the side of a M57 for you?

Adrian

Hi thanks for the offer , but am intending to stay with the 530D active mount system , ditching the alloy supports and modding the chassis with brackets for them .

Do you know anyone who has a laser scanner for use in designing the bell housing modification I intend. Sticking the engine onto the lt85 in standard 110 location looks to be a goer from trial fit .

[Team Idris]

That is a HUGE pump, I love it

(I've got PTO pump envy now)

[B reg 90]

That is a HUGE pump, I love it

(I've got PTO pump envy now)

It's a load sensing varible displacement piston pump!