Standard brake upgrade

[landypc]

Dear all,

It's that time of year when servicing is due blah, blah blah. Santa needs his 4x4 to stop and he wants to make it happen quicker and better. What are his option?

1. Use standard Land Rover parts upgrading to vented 110/130 discs & pads all round or going after market and using EBC, Brembo or similar?

2. If he upgrades using standard parts to 110/130 spec what will he need?

Are the fronts the same on 90,110 & 130 (2004 XS model vented with TC & ABS)

3. Has any one done this (I should think & hope so)

4. What problems were encountered?

5. Ho Ho Ho and all that

Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year to all LR 4x4 forum users.

PS

Don't forget, we can go almost any where with our toys so if you are somewhere with thick snow, help some one out. You'll get cold but trust me it's very satisfying. No I'm not a Bible basher, it just proves we drive the best there is!!!!!!!!!

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Discs and calipers are more or less universally interchangeable (beware earlier imperial/metric issues). 110 have bigger rear discs and larger piston calipers. 110 front calpiers are larger than the 90 ones but vented discs are one size fits all. I tried EBC stuff on my disco and they were worst upgrade I ever did! Remember if you get calipers with larger pistons you may need to match them up to the correct master cylinder to maintain stroke & efficiency.

[Retroanaconda]

Discs and calipers are more or less universally interchangeable (beware earlier imperial/metric issues). 110 have bigger rear discs and larger piston calipers. 110 front calpiers are larger than the 90 ones but vented discs are one size fits all. I tried EBC stuff on my disco and they were worst upgrade I ever did! Remember if you get calipers with larger pistons you may need to match them up to the correct master cylinder to maintain stroke & efficiency.

Not quite true for post-1991 vehicles. Since then the braking system has been rationalised and is as such:

Front discs same for all models, four-pot 46mm calipers. Vented and non-vented calipers and discs must go together obviously but they will all interchange between 90/110/130. 110/130 had vented as standard from 300Tdi onwards. ABS is dealt with on the CV joint, the calipers and discs are the same.

110/130 uses same disc as the front on the rear, but with two-pot 46mm calipers. 90 uses smaller disc with two-pot 41mm calipers.

Standard discs in good fettle should be fine, they were designed to stop 6.5 tons effectively after all.

[landy V8]

i changed and upgraded the discs and pads on my 110.

I used paddocks own slotted/grooved performance discs front and rear(vented up front) with EBC Ultramax pads all round.

it made a hell of a difference on stopping over the old drums(converted my rear Salisbury)

Plus i replaced all the calipers

"THE DISCS ARE NOT MADE BY BRITPART"

[Tanuki]

90, 110 or 130?

Must admit, I get through both pads and discs at quite a worrying rate on my 90; it had three replacement front-sets and one rear-set fitted (at LR's expense) in the first 2 years.

The OEM vented-discs warp, and the standard pads - for the last decade we have to use the stupid 'asbestos-free' greenie-nonsense - just don't handle consistent high temperatures properly so after enthusiastic use the binding-agents break up and the pads crumble round the edges.

Be careful about increasing the braking effort on the rear wheels - particularly if you do much towing. Dynamic weight-distribution under heavy braking with a trailer often defies simple, instinctive analysis and leads you to need all three lanes of M4 to bring the resultant mess to a stop. Trust me on this!

--Tanuki.

[landypc]

Retroanaconda,

Let me get this right.

Up front 90,110 & 130 use the same discs and pads. No needs to change, swap or purchase additional items.

On the rear the callipers on the 110/130 have larger pistons with vented discs but the vented discs will fit with smaller 90 callipers?

Obviously it would be prudent to use 110/130 callipers.

In short I can replace my 90 rear solid discs for 110/130 vented with no additional parts required. Will the 110/130 rear pads fit the 90 callipers?

landypc

[disco_al]

In short I can replace my 90 rear solid discs for 110/130 vented with no additional parts required. Will the 110/130 rear pads fit the 90 callipers?

you will need to upgrade to vented calipers if you are going for vented discs, the standard ones won't fit.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Don't think there are any vented rears available either. But stand to be corrected

[Retroanaconda]

Not quite landypc.

No vented rear options were available. And for what it's worth in my opinion all the drilled/groved/slotted discs you can buy are not worth the money. Standard Land Rover brakes are damn good, and will quickly exceed the ability of the tyres to hold the road. Vented discs offer improved repeat-application performance, but that's it.

Front Brakes

So you have a 90. It has the same size front brake discs as all post-1991 Defenders. They all use 4-pot 46mm calipers. There are vented and non-vented versions. 90s have non-vented as standard, or vented could be specified as an option. 110/130 was fitted with vented as standard.

Rear Brakes

110 and 130 models used the same size disc on the rear as on the front, though the non-vented variant. However they used 2-pot calipers instead of 4-pot ones. Same 46mm pistons as the front. 90 models used a smaller disc and different caliper, still 2-pot but only 41mm pistons.

As far as your vehicle is concerned, the only upgrade I would consider would be fitting vented discs/calipers to the front axle. This will improve the repeat-application performance of your brakes, but it won't add any extra braking force since the discs/calipers are all the same size - just wider to fit the wider vented discs in. Putting 110 brakes on the back axle would increase rear-end braking force (as the discs are bigger), and upset the braking balance that Land Rover worked so hard to achieve!

[vulcan bomber]

New brake fluid works wonders for naff brakes.

[Henry Webster]

Good question to ask yourself is what problem are you trying to solve?

As Retroanaconda says fully functioning standard brakes are very good and the usual limiting factor is the tyre's grip of the road.

People are often surprised that we don't run vented discs on the racer, but we've rarely had any problem with fade.

[landypc]

Nuff said, I'm convinced. I'll keep my standard brake set up. It already has vented up front. What is the opinion on friction material.

Standard LR or a good after market set Mintex, Ferodo. Can someone give an honest opinion on EBC pads good or bad.

landypc

[gilloverland]

Just to add that the vented discs and calipers upgrade doesnt fit early 110s - mine is ex military on a C reg and when I tried this the calipers foul on the hubs where the wheel studs go. Even if you ground a bit off, in the event of a wheel bearing failure the hub would hit the caliper with disasterous consequences.

 

I just thought id update this thread as its one of the first on google search.

 

 

[Snagger]

In all honesty, I think you're ar better off sticking with standard spec but high quality parts.  Their braking power is very good in standard form - my 109 stopped very well with its drum system and the standard Discovery disc system it now has is superb.  It's the gradual deterioration of stiffening caliper pistons, worn discs and pads, weakening master cylinders and bulging hoses that causes the trouble.  Go through the system bit by bit.  New discs and shoes (AP and Mintex respectively are quite adequate, but NOT Britpart!), a full set of Zeus stainless pistons in rebuilt calipers, Goodridge hoses and, if needed, a new TRW master cylinder will have you stopping very smartly.  No need for extra expense on Brembo or other custom stuff that'll affect your insurance and bank balance far more than it affects your braking performance.

[Ex Member]

On 9/26/2018 at 3:59 AM, gilloverland said:

Just to add that the vented discs and calipers upgrade doesnt fit early 110s - mine is ex military on a C reg and when I tried this the calipers foul on the hubs where the wheel studs go. Even if you ground a bit off, in the event of a wheel bearing failure the hub would hit the caliper with disastrous consequences.

I just thought id update this thread as its one of the first on google search.

Thanks for that as everyone always said you could put the vented discs on anything.

[paime]

On 9/26/2018 at 10:59 AM, gilloverland said:

Just to add that the vented discs and calipers upgrade doesnt fit early 110s - mine is ex military on a C reg and when I tried this the calipers foul on the hubs where the wheel studs go. Even if you ground a bit off, in the event of a wheel bearing failure the hub would hit the caliper with disasterous consequences.

 

I just thought id update this thread as its one of the first on google search.

This must've been heartbreaking after getting to the end of the job and finding it doesn't fit!

[gilloverland]

On 9/28/2018 at 9:32 AM, paime said:

This must've been heartbreaking after getting to the end of the job and finding it doesn't fit!

Yep it was! - I thought about machining the hub by a couple of mm to make clearance but if a wheel bearing ever failed the hub could hit the caliper and that could be disastrous! Luckily this was spotted after only the nearside was done so used new like for like parts instead.