Mark Adams Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hi, I have just purchased a freelander 1998 1.8 for a runaround while I do some repairs to my Disco, It has had a full service just before I purchased it inc timing belt change, oil, filters, plugs etc. I struggled to even get the car home as it was loosing power going up hills, I suspected the head gasket had gone as I understand it is common on these so did a compression test and found compression to be fairly even between 10.5 - 11.5 Bar on all cylinders. I then found that the wrong plugs had been fitted so changed these for the upraded versions and it is better but still seems under powered. It is right that you need to rev it above 3K rpm to be doing 70 on the flat? It will go up hills but will not accelerate up even slight inclines. I had thought about maybe checking the timing and checking the condition of the rotor and cap but just wondering if anyone has any other suggestions? Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonTemplar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 My wife has a 2002 1.8 Freelander 3 door as a runaround, fun car with the kids and the roof off and the odd commute into London, and I have to tell you, that sounds like the typical performance to me. She has to run at 3500rpm on the motorway to crack 70mph. We like it as a fun and capable runaround - it cost us £2250 with 50k on the clock in silver and great condition, but I couldn't run it as our main car purely because it is so underpowered. Hills are definitely not its natural habitat if you like to go up them quickly! It's firmly a second car for us for that very reason. I have driven a fair few 1.8s that were all the same, so I'm afraid it might be that there is nothing unusual wrong with yours... Sorry. ST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonTemplar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (Although that said it should obviously not struggle to get up hills, ours feels strong but steady - what I meant is that it could be that the things you have done have brought the car up to 'normal' and that the limited hill acceleration/needing over 3000rpm to hit 70 you describe is as good as it is going to get) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJF Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 That doesn't sound right. They're not the quickest, but they shouldn't struggle. Check the rotor arm, cap and HT leads. Check that the air filter has actually been changed. Could be a clogged fuel filter if that hasn't been changed. The other thing that might be worth a look is timing belt timing as that was changed. I don't know if the K series will run if it's a tooth out, but it may be worth checking that all the marks line up. Hope this helps, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Mine was always pretty nippy, certainly no worse than the TD4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonTemplar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ours is nippy enough, and will cruise well, but hills are its undoing and I'm pretty sure, from having driven others, that there is nothing wrong with it. I like how it drives overall, but mid-range punch is certainly not its strong suit lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 I have not locked to car until know as I live on an a farm, I tried locked it with the button and shortly after the alarm went off, I turned it off and tried again and same happened again 5 minutes later. Are the sensors prone to failure? Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcc Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I know that the freelander is not the best for aerodynamics but the Rover 75 auto with the same engine that we previously owned went like whatsit off a shovel (until, of course, the headgasket failed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 RPM is down to the gearbox ratios, unless your clutch is slipping. From memory 3k@70mph is about right. Slowing down on hills isn't, mine would cruise all day at 90 up hill & down if I wanted to pay for the fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The only thing I can add is maybe the exhaust cat-con is partially plugged. Assuming one is fitted, its core could be breaking up from old age or excess fueling from a misfire could have melted it. This often gets overlooked on otherwise sound engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Do you know how I would test to see if the cat is faulty? Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Do you know how I would test to see if the cat is faulty? Mark. The best way is a "test pipe" that replaces the cat-con but I haven't seen these lately as they are illegal for road use. Some shops install a back pressure gauge at the O2 sensor fitting upstream on the exhaust. Another very old school trick is get an intake manifold vacuum gauge with diagnostic instructions. I think this is for experienced engineers as the interpretation of readings is subtle. Comparison to a similar vehicle for hill climbing ability is least invasive. A rule of thumb where I live is any cat-con with over 120k miles has lost efficiency and worth considering replacing just for the environment. Less expensive low restriction racing cat-cons are my choice if road legal for your location. I don't feel guilty for recommending them because their slightly higher HC is offset by actually lower CO2 output! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Given that the question is "has the cat collapsed & blocked the pipe?" the way to find out is undo the 6 bolts holding it in place, remove it and look inside it. Should be able to see right through it, through the honeycomb structure inside. If it's broken up or blocked, it'll be quite obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Given that the question is "has the cat collapsed & blocked the pipe?" the way to find out is undo the 6 bolts holding it in place, remove it and look inside it. Should be able to see right through it, through the honeycomb structure inside. If it's broken up or blocked, it'll be quite obvious. Ahh, and if no light comes through get out the long drill bit - I didn't write that, LOL. Seriously if you take the cat off and the neighbors don't mind consider going for a drive with earplugs. You won't set any codes on a '98 OBD. The older pellet type internal bed design has right angle flow and support baffles that make visual diagnosis problematical except when platinum starts falling out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 As well as the cat, consider a partially-collapsed silencer box: I've dealt with a couple of cars (of the '10 years old low mileage one careful owner' variety) where lots of short journeys had filled the silencer-box with water and the baffles had rusted/shifted internally to the point where virtually no exhaust-gases could get out ! --Tanuki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Plenty of exhaust gas gets out, I have just completed a back pressure test and found little - no back pressure, so exhaust seems fine. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have now changed the plugs for up rated NGK plugs, replaced the rotor arm and cap (which w as slightly burnt out). I have just received my Sykes 4 gas portable gas analyser back from having a new battery installed so I thought I would test the emmisions. I was surprised to find them extremely high, CO was about 4.5, HC about 300 - 400, so it seems to still have poor ignition, I have noticed a very slight misfire on idle. I am going to change all the HT leads next as the Lucas ones that are fitting look old. I was going to use new Lucas leads but happy if someone can recommend a better quality. Anything else people think might be worth checking? Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have now changed the plugs for up rated NGK plugs, replaced the rotor arm and cap (which w as slightly burnt out). I have just received my Sykes 4 gas portable gas analyser back from having a new battery installed so I thought I would test the emmisions. I was surprised to find them extremely high, CO was about 4.5, HC about 300 - 400, so it seems to still have poor ignition, I have noticed a very slight misfire on idle. I am going to change all the HT leads next as the Lucas ones that are fitting look old. I was going to use new Lucas leads but happy if someone can recommend a better quality. Anything else people think might be worth checking? Mark. Those 'running rich' emissions figures would make me suspect the coolant temp sensor might have failed and the ECU is overfuelling on the assumption that the engine is still cold. As far as HT leads are concerned, I always used to recommend NGK but these days they're hard to come by. Magnecor are the new NGK. --Tanuki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Would I be wrong in thinking that if the temperature sensor was giving false reading then the idle speed would be raised as the car would still think it is cold? The car starts at about 1100 rpm and settles at about 800 when warmed up. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 It's a fair assumption but they do do things like count running time as well as using the sensors, should be easy to check the coolant sensor using the numbers in the RAVE manual and a multimeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 I would also expect poor hot or cold starting if the sensor was faulty but the car starts perfectly every time. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Air temp sensor might also affect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzvillage Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hello all, I am new at this Forum, I have a 2003 Freelander as well, and I am also having under power issues. As I have been spending time observing this problem, I think I found that when I drive it when it is still cold it begins to shake like if the spark plugs are not getting the spark they need. And then I get a service engine soon light. that stays on for a day or two. When I let the Freelander warm up then it runs great. No lights or hesitation. (!) Is it possible that due to humidity the spark plug cables tend to have leaks and do not deliver enough spark? I had one of the spark plug cables replaced before and the hesitation stopped for a while, but now comes back when it is cold, It feels like an electrical problem. Any thoughts? I love the car, but it is temperamental.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I had problems with the HT leads arcing, making sure they're correctly fitted and correctly spaced will make a difference, as will fitting good quality (genuine) leads, rotor, and cap, and ensuring nothing is rubbing on metal parts (this isn't always easy with this engine). Are you mistaking the "check engine" light (as in "I've got a problem") with the "service interval" light (which I didn't know they had)? The "check engine" light means the ECU has logged a fault, which may well give you a good clue as to your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hi, Just an update to the original problem. Well still a lack of power, and as mentioned also high CO and HC. I have now checked the Oxygen sensor with my scope and found that it is giving a constant reading of approx .750 mv (RICH), the reading does not cycle at all. I opened the throttle a few times and the reading dropped very breifly to just below 0 and then immediatly settled back to .750 again. This implies to me that the sensor is working OK but something else is causing a rich condition. any ideas what may be causing it? I have changed the plugs, cap and rotor but not the leads yet. Any suggestions for further tests. I have visually checked all vacuum pipes and they look OK and secure. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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