SVA requirements - vehicle type.

[Astro_Al]

I'm hurtling towards an SVA. Well, crawling towards one anyway...

I keep hearing how the 'car' test is 'impossible' (though having flicked through the manual I can't see why to be honest - most of it just seems like common sense and stuff you'd be better off including anyway), and how it's much easier to get through by registering it as commercial and bypassing lots of tests.

I like easy. B)

So... what are the requirements for it to be accepted as a commercial vehicle? I read something about a rear loadspace in a thread in the 'Members Vehicles' section - what's the exact requirement for that, and are there any others, or things it must NOT have?

Cheers me dears. Al.

[MogLite]

....I'm hurtling...

Exactly what speed do the clocks run on your planet

No rear seats, no rear side windows, and a reasonably long load bay measured from the rear of the front seats. Perv on here has an 88" Bowler that is commercial SVA'd ISTR. So its not that long.

[GBMUD]

LesB said at the weekend that he was told ANY pickup gets tested as a commercial. Dunno if that means double cabs too though.

Chris

[Astro_Al]

Exactly what speed do the clocks run on your planet

No rear seats, no rear side windows, and a reasonably long load bay measured from the rear of the front seats. Perv on here has an 88" Bowler that is commercial SVA'd ISTR. So its not that long.

The "hurtling" refers to the violence with which it's gonna smack me in the face The "crawling" refers to rate of approach!

No rear seats? - Check! B)

No rear side windows? - Check! B)

Reasonably long load bay? - ?? Possibly ?? How long is that?? Is 40" enough?

Al.

EDIT: Pants... another cross-posting... Hmm, any pick-up you say? I wonder what constitutes a pickup. Kind of a grey area when you're looking at a caged rear with longitudinal supports. If I don't panel out the rear, is that a pick-up, even if it's got cage around it? Ta.

[GBMUD]

I wonder what constitutes a pickup. Kind of a grey area when you're looking at a caged rear with longitudinal supports. If I don't panel out the rear, is that a pick-up, even if it's got cage around it? Ta.

Mmm, beats me. I hope that all you guys getting SVAs can put together some useful guidelines for the rest of us, there seems to be sweet FA available now.

Chris

[Mark90]

Al, IMHO I think you need to speak to your local SVA man who will be doing your SVA test about what they will class as a pickup/commercial and work towards that. If you develop a relationship with them and ask their advice it will be very difficult for them to fail you or say you need a car test rather then commercial one when you turn up with your creation. It may well me you need to build the car for an SVA, panel rear load bed etc, and then mod it to your spec afterwards.

[Astro_Al]

Yeah - I think that's some good advice. Mind you, at the rate I'm going, the local SVA man will have retired (or worse...) by the time I actually drive anything up to his gate. (maybe I should start talking to his 5 year old son now...?).

Still, that's a good plan. Maybe I should phone a few around the country and pick the one with the most flexible specs!

As you say, I could always un-panel it or add a couple of tubes afterwards. Good call.

Anyone looking at this thing is gonna know it isn't anything to do with any commercial activity - I guess that doesn't matter and it's all about ticking the boxes huh?

Cheers for the inputs. Al.

[istruggle2gate11]

LesB said at the weekend that he was told ANY pickup gets tested as a commercial. Dunno if that means double cabs too though.

Chris

My Nissan Navara Double Cab is classed as a commercial vehicle, it has rear seats and windows, it must therefore figure that a combination of load capacity and / or no rear windows/seats apply.

I know for sure that the carrying capacity of a 4 seater pickup must be over 1000Kg for it to be classed as a commercial - I have a suspision that this has increased to 1100Kg, as when I bought my Navara, I knew I was very safe as it has a capacity of 1250Kg (in practice 2500Kg )

Perhaps escort size with solid rear panels and only 2 seats become a commercial?

[Astro_Al]

Oh man - nothing's simple, is it!?!

Ok, how do they define load capacity? I'm looking at a all-up weight of around 1750 (or a bit more, dammit), but the axles are rated much higher. Is it based on axle capacity? Or some estimate of the strength of the chassis structure?

Does 'load' include the seats - i.e. allowance for, say 75kgs per seat?

Al.

[istruggle2gate11]

Oh man - nothing's simple, is it!?!

Ok, how do they define load capacity? I'm looking at a all-up weight of around 1750 (or a bit more, dammit), but the axles are rated much higher. Is it based on axle capacity? Or some estimate of the strength of the chassis structure?

Does 'load' include the seats - i.e. allowance for, say 75kgs per seat?

Al.

Im no expert, but i do know the load is extra - i.e. everything else has been included - my pickup is legally allowed to have 5 persons, 1250Kg in the back tub whilst towing a 2850Kg braked trailer.

This must be a deep subject, structure aside, at what point does stability, brake efficiency etc come in?

[Les Brock]

As mines now a king cab and its a lot of work to alter it, just for the sake of it

Its going in as it is, well once I've put wings and light back in that is

To see what it fails on, and then do what I need to get it through with the small book list of failures

Its so up in the air with what will and won't be acceptable, mine will have an internal and external load space

No cage, standard bumper, BFG's on Freestyle off SWMBO Disco,

I think a double cab would have to be a passenger car as it has more that 2 seats, but the SVA man at Swansea said a pick up would be a commercial

I think one of the reasons that a defender will not pass a SVA as a passenger is the steering, it has to have protective steering.. ....just a guess though !

[geoffbeaumont]

I think one of the reasons that a defender will not pass a SVA as a passenger is the steering, it has to have protective steering.. ....just a guess though !

What's protective steering?

[Les Brock]

Found on the VOSA site

IM FOREWORD - KIT GOODS VEHICLES - ISSUED 07/7/99

One or two kit car manufacturers have submitted applications for vehicles that they claim to be goods vehicles, even though the load carrying

compartment is barely big enough for a suit case. This is clearly aimed at getting the less onerous test.

We have discussed the situation with VSE and have agreed that to be a goods vehicle it would need to be predominantly for that purpose, i.e.

have a load carrying capability in excess of passenger and luggage capacity, have an area from the rear of the drivers seat base (when in the

rearmost position) to the rear of the load space greater than the rear of the seat base to the forward most point in the passenger compartment

(usually under the dash) and no rear seat mounting positions.

[Steve Hiatt]

I know for sure that the carrying capacity of a 4 seater pickup must be over 1000Kg for it to be classed as a commercial

Isn't that only from a tax point of view?

[Les Brock]

and this....

SVA Information reference Foreword / 9

IM FOREWORD - VEHICLE TEST CATEGORY - Re-Issued 03/07/06

a) a van type body capable of carrying goods (possibly with side windows fitted) and seats in the area to the rear of the driving position, or

B) been “converted” for use as a goods vehicle.

In respect of “a)”,

When making an assessment in relation to the test category applicable (passenger or goods) consideration must be given to the following;

• all seats should be taken into account (in there in use position), including “occasional seats” and seats that fold away to provide a greater

luggage/goods area, and

• if the vehicle is constructed for the carriage of both passengers and goods or burden and meets the “Dual Purpose” definition, (see IM

Foreword) i.e. not over 2040kg, fitted with a rigid roof, additional transverse row of seats (which may or may not fold down), required

minimum glazing and meets the dimension requirement, it should be tested as a passenger vehicle.

Where a vehicle does not meet the “Dual Purpose” definition, and has a van body without side windows in the rear, but with an additional row

of seats, it should be tested as a goods vehicle.

In respect of “B)” passenger vehicles converted for use as a goods vehicle:

Please amend Foreword, item 2 b “Goods Vehicles” “NOTE” to read “NOTE 1” and add the following “NOTE 2”.

NOTE 2: A vehicle will only be considered a “van” (and as such subject to the goods vehicle criteria) if it was designed and constructed

principally for the carriage of goods. The removal of seats will only change the vehicle to a “van” if the vehicle was originally a “van” ie originally

constructed principally as a goods vehicle or it can be demonstrated that the vehicle has been fully converted to a goods vehicle specification

equivalent to that produced by the manufacturer. If this criteria can be met, the vehicle will be eligible to test as a goods vehicle.

[SteveG]

so quick question..

When i changed my 90 from Truck cab to a Hardtop and added two bench seats, I notified by insurance company but not DVLA. Do I need to notify DVLA that it's now a 6 seater hardtop?

Also if I assume that if I do I would no longer have to put these down as modifications on the insurance form.

Cheers

Steve

[GBMUD]

Im no expert, but i do know the load is extra - i.e. everything else has been included - my pickup is legally allowed to have 5 persons, 1250Kg in the back tub whilst towing a 2850Kg braked trailer.

IIRC the 1000kg minimum load-bed capacity is for a 4/5 seater crew-cab to qualify as a commercial for the purposes of getting the VAT back on purchase price - and to get in the £500 company car (van) tax bracket. This tax "dodge" has now been abolished and van drivers now pay tax on the value as a benefit in kind like company car drivers. Lets see how bouyant sales are now!

I don't believe that you could have 5 of me in there AND 1250kg in the tub - legally. That sounds like a maximum load including driver/passengers to me.

Chris

[istruggle2gate11]

IIRC the 1000kg minimum load-bed capacity is for a 4/5 seater crew-cab to qualify as a commercial for the purposes of getting the VAT back on purchase price - and to get in the £500 company car (van) tax bracket. This tax "dodge" has now been abolished and van drivers now pay tax on the value as a benefit in kind like company car drivers. Lets see how bouyant sales are now!

I don't believe that you could have 5 of me in there AND 1250kg in the tub - legally. That sounds like a maximum load including driver/passengers to me.

Chris

Perhaps it does, I shall dig out the handbook.

The tax dodge has not yet been abolished, its next April, and even then it will be at a much lower rate than a typical car - around £500 per annum not including supertax wages.. The current system still requires users to pay tax as a benefit in kind, just at a much much lower rate - around £78 not including supertax wages.

[istruggle2gate11]

so quick question..

When i changed my 90 from Truck cab to a Hardtop and added two bench seats, I notified by insurance company but not DVLA. Do I need to notify DVLA that it's now a 6 seater hardtop?

Also if I assume that if I do I would no longer have to put these down as modifications on the insurance form.

Cheers

Steve

I would inform the DVLA even for the slightest change, its not worth the agro these days if something goes wrong.... seizures etc.

A friend of mine is an insurance assesor, trust me, you cant play games with these guys, the slightest error and they are off, so if your car wasnt a factory install of what the v5 says, then I would tell them.

[nicam]

- and to get in the £500 company car (van) tax bracket. This tax "dodge" has now been abolished and van drivers now pay tax on the value as a benefit in kind like company car drivers.

The £500 benefit in kind still applies, up until next April, when it will become £3000 B I K., not related to the purchase price. This will still be cheaper, for the top of the range (ie expensive) pick ups, than running a company car.

nicam

[galooph]

I'm currently building a trayback Rangey which I'm planning to put through the commercial SVA test when I'm done. The following note is in the SVA manual which makes out that all pickups (no roof over goods area) are classed as commercial.

"NOTE: Where the vehicle has two

separate compartments for passengers

and goods (possibly with separate

roof structures) or the roof on the

passenger area does not extend over

the goods area, the vehicle is deemed

to be a Goods Vehicle."

That's what I'm counting on anyway as my load area won't be that big compared to the length of the vehicle.

Dan