murran Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 as above... r plate disco 300tdi.... i've sprodically stuck the odd 5l tub of veg oil in the tank when its been on offer at supermarkets for 4.50 for 5l etc etc. with no ill effects so far. been wondering about running it more permenantly on new vag oil?? anyone else doing this? been reading up on heated fuel filters and the like to prevent waxing etc. so... people doing it, whats your vehicle set up and overhead costs..... more than anything advice?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 my 200 runs most of the year 50 50 straight into the tank, no problems unless its not far from freezing cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 My 200 is running on 50/50 bio/derv at present, and runs 100% bio in the summer with absolutely no problems at all. I have a single Series fuel tank, no heated fuel line or filters or fancy gadgets like that, and still have some rubber fuel lines, they're not all plastic. One point to note on a legal matter (as this is a public and law-abiding forum), veg oil bought from the supermarket is zero rated for VAT. customs and excise require VAT to be paid on veg oil used as a fuel. It is the law and you must submit reciepts and pay the VAT every month to HMRC. Failing to do this can lead to you being proscecuted should you have your tank dipped at a roadside test, and be unable to show that VAT has been paid. this is the reason why I run on Bio and not veg oil, bought from an outlet with trading standards certificates, and always carry my reciepts as proof that I am running on fuel which has had the VAT paid at source, as its less hassle than doing the paperwork myself. I buy my bio at £109.9, where as buying veg oil at £1 is acctaully £1.20 when you do the legal bit and pay the VAT. All the legal information is to be found on HMRC's website in black and white. Anyway, boring legal bits aside, I do know of 2 300TDi's which have run succesfully on bio and bio/derv mix and have shown no issues. I do recommend carrying a spare fuel filter, even a cheapo one, just in case you should have an issue, but the fuel filter I'm running is the one that was fitted to the engine when it was removed from a disco, and hasn't been changed in 4 years. The disco had been running on bio before I bought it, and has had several hundred gallons run through it since with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You actually have people dippling your tanks ???? good grief if the goverment excise men ever did that to me they would lock me away, thank goodness that Australia hasnt yet stooped to such low levels. I run my Disco 300TDi on a combination of heating oil (industrial diesel) bio diesel, - commercially available vegtable oil + ethanol mix at the bowser but a tad over 1/2 the price of mineral diesel, and home brewed recycled veg oil which I filter, de-water, extract the unsoluble fats and add ethonol to achieve a Cetain rating of around 85+ with a particle size of less than 2 microns. In all my fuel costs never go above 75 cents per litre as against $1.48 at the bowser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I thought you were allowed to use veg oil to a certain extent tax tree (x-amount of litres per year or something like that) Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Up to 2000 litres a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Up to 2000 litres a year Isn't it 2500 litres per year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 ..... I buy my bio at £109.9, where as buying veg oil at £1 is acctaully £1.20 when you do the legal bit and pay the VAT ....... Was just googling for limits and came accross this http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/excise-duty/brief1810.htm Basically says from April 2010 for 2 years biodiesel producers have been getting a 20p per litre rebate..... I guess that means your bio will go up to £129.9 from April Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper109 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Maybe someone should clarify that Biodiesel and veg oil are quite different. Biodiesel is veg oil that has been titrated to remove glycerine and will therefore have a viscosity similar to Derv. No ill effects should therefore be expected except eventual seal problems on older equipment. Viton seals are needed. Veg oil on the other hand, has glycerine still in it and will require to be heated before its viscosity becomes close to that of Derv. If you use veg oil at ambient temperatures you are probably putting quite a strain on your IP etc and it is not really recommended. If you are in the tropics its probably no problem but in cooler climates you are gambling. People who use it regularly mostly use a two tank system, starting and stopping on Derv, switching over to veg when its warmed up to about 60 C. Some people burn waste vegetable oil using a two tank system which is quite risky and requires a good source of trustable oil and it needs to be well filtered (at least to 5 micron) and to have water removed. Its a messy process and few do it for very long. The 200 and 300tdi engines should run well on any heated veg oil system and bio should be interchangeable with derv. Watch out for leaking seals though. Another comment might be that veg oil and bio have better lubricating qualities than almost sulphur free derv and therefore adding a little to each tankful should be benificial to injector equipment. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnarne Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 ... I do recommend carrying a spare fuel filter, even a cheapo one, just in case you should have an issue, but the fuel filter I'm running is the one that was fitted to the engine when it was removed from a disco, and hasn't been changed in 4 years. The disco had been running on bio before I bought it, and has had several hundred gallons run through it since with no problems. You mean you haven't changed the filter for > 4 years ? Haynes says 12000 miles or 12 month.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 been wondering about running it more permenantly on new vag oil?? Where do you get this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Where do you get this? I think we know where it comes from.... we just need to know his secret for getting it in sufficient quantity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murran Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 just last week it was on offer in tesco. 4.50 in 5l tubs. i bought two. so as not to look suspicious. but you could quite easily do the rounds buying two tubs in every tesco branches in your area. tax wise theyve been mucking about with the rates, i think you can use 2500l a year with out paying tax.... then its 27.1p tax on each l after that. think i'll get the heated filter thing and just carry on sticking a couple of tubs in a week when theres already plenty of diesel in it. maybe use more in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murran Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 these look good for the money. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250965645291?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3ndy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I run my car on 100% bio in summer then 50-50 in winter. I have fitted a water heater which sits between the filter and housing which makes it run better once engine starts to get warm. I have bought a 12v heated sedimentor filter which I have not yet managed to fit as I can't seem to get the fuel lines off the old filter Seem to get slightly less mpg on bio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3ndy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 This is what I bought http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuel-Heat-Exchanger-suitable-Bio-Diesel-/320514710260?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Other_Vehicle_Parts_Accessories_ET&hash=item4aa02a5af4 and it works a treat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Maybe someone should clarify that Biodiesel and veg oil are quite different. Biodiesel is veg oil that has been titrated to remove glycerine and will therefore have a viscosity similar to Derv. No ill effects should therefore be expected except eventual seal problems on older equipment. Viton seals are needed. Veg oil on the other hand, has glycerine still in it and will require to be heated before its viscosity becomes close to that of Derv. If you use veg oil at ambient temperatures you are probably putting quite a strain on your IP etc and it is not really recommended. If you are in the tropics its probably no problem but in cooler climates you are gambling. People who use it regularly mostly use a two tank system, starting and stopping on Derv, switching over to veg when its warmed up to about 60 C. Some people burn waste vegetable oil using a two tank system which is quite risky and requires a good source of trustable oil and it needs to be well filtered (at least to 5 micron) and to have water removed. Its a messy process and few do it for very long. The 200 and 300tdi engines should run well on any heated veg oil system and bio should be interchangeable with derv. Watch out for leaking seals though. Another comment might be that veg oil and bio have better lubricating qualities than almost sulphur free derv and therefore adding a little to each tankful should be benificial to injector equipment. Steve Not bad, but a few small comments: It's a molecule of glycerol, not glycerine, that attaches the three ester chains together in a tri-glyceride oil (vegetable oil etc). The removal of the glycerol (well, actually, it's not glycerol until it's removed - it becomes an alcohol as part of the reaction) breaks the ester chains resulting in fatty acid methyl esters (or FAME) biodiesel. And it's a transesterification reaction, not a titration. A titration is generally used to gauge the quantity of chemicals needed for the reaction (although not always). Back to the original question: Yes, a 300 TDi will run quite happily on veg in a blend with diesel (or even biodiesel). I clocked up nearly 40k miles on mine with just blending. I also installed a twin tank system with a heat exchanger on the oil to thin it with heat - again, worked just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murran Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 This is what I bought http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4aa02a5af4 and it works a treat hmmmmm. you just fit that inbetween the head and the filter? that thread size correct for mine then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3ndy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Not sure as I got mine from america. I can send you his email add if you want? I bought the 12v heated sedimentor and that part from the guy and it took about 1 week to arrive. Send him a message asking if it fits a discovery filter house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3ndy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 cost me $258 inc postage for the coolant heater and 12v sedimentor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3ndy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 infact I know a friend who is selling his 12v sedimentor as he had to scrap his disco because of rust problems + mot. think he would take £60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hicapster Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Is it possible to fit a fuel filter set up like the one used in early jeep cherokees as these have heaters in them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murran Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 dunno, old shoguns have heated ones too i think. i'll grab that complete one off ebay in my first link. comes with a new filter too as it could do with changing tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper109 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Not bad, but a few small comments: It's a molecule of glycerol, not glycerine, that attaches the three ester chains together in a tri-glyceride oil (vegetable oil etc). The removal of the glycerol (well, actually, it's not glycerol until it's removed - it becomes an alcohol as part of the reaction) breaks the ester chains resulting in fatty acid methyl esters (or FAME) biodiesel. And it's a transesterification reaction, not a titration. A titration is generally used to gauge the quantity of chemicals needed for the reaction (although not always). I thought glycerine was a "common" name for Glycerol. Some people use the two words without qualifying a distinction, especially if they are talking about making soap. If its not glycerol until its removed what is it called while its binding the other stuff together? I'm no chemist, I just drive a diesel and I use Lipitor to reduce my tri-glycerides ;-) Actually I just wrote what I did as some folks seem to think that veg oil and bio are the same and can be used interchangeably which is far from the case...in my opinion. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murran Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 i realise that veg oil, used or new, requires a "refining" process to a certain standard to be called bio-fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.