ajh Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 OK, before I suffer any more brain damage from the horrible white smoke I'm getting I thought I'd see if anyoe can shed some light on the problem I'm having. I was getting poor mileage/performance and a number of other symptoms that I'd pretty much nailed down to a failing injection pump (200TDI), I finally got around to swapping in one off an engine that was working fine when it was removed last year. Everything is setup correctly; I double checked (whole timing cover off etc) and timing is correct. It was running fairly strong; just leaking fuel and poor mileage before I swapped in the other pump. When I first started it with the new pump there was a squeal sound for about 3 seconds, then it woud idle fine but would not respond to the accellerator at all. I removed the diaphragm and added some light machine oil and in a few minutes it 'seemed' to rev OK.... I works... but when I have to shift at 20kph, then 30, then 40, the 60... and if I don't it belches white unburnt diesel smoke. My assumption here is that the other pump, somehow possibly from sitting, managed to damage itself (specifically the governor) upon startup, and no matter how much I do I'm not going to be able to get it working correctly... Given that the only change was the pump, all the other usual variables seem to be excluded. Ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 More info. So when the throttle is held open it only increases RPM for about the first 1/3rd of the movement, and misfires can be heard when it's held wide open and the shop very rapidly fills up with the unburnt diesel white smoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If you're 100% sure that the timing, etc is ok, then the injector pump sounds suspect. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 OK, right after getting proper sleep and reading a few threads I figured out the main problem. The two banjo bolts on the input and output for the pump got swapped; why they're not different sizes.... The problem now though is I'm still not getting the kind of power I'd expect, I'm topping at about 120kph but if I turn up the fueling my EGT goes too high before I get smoke. I advanced the timing as much as the plate would allow in-situ but there seems to only be a degree or less of advancement and the rest of the slack seems to be in retardation. I gather this means that when I re-did the belt I put it with the cam one notch forward of where it should be. I'm not eagar to take the chest apart again today (especially considering I put it together with Right Stuff last time due to using up all my gaskets; but if that's the consensus on the behaviour I'll have to get to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 The lack of power is most evident just off-idle with a tendancy to stall, then it seems OK to about 70kph then slow from there to 110kph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 OK, I just discovered something that isn't mentioned in any of the timing threads I've seen to date. The gear for the injection pump has two different positions for installation. You can set it up either for maximum movement clockwise, or maximum movement counter-clockwise, I'd just assumed (yeah, stupid to assume) that it would be setup to sit in the middle of the drive slot but it isn't, it's about 80% to either advanced or retarded. When assembling before you tighten down the 3 bolts on the injection pump make sure you can rotate the crank more counter-clockwise than clockwise and this will give you more adjustment room for advancing the pump timing. Now to just get things re-assembled and determine if this fixes my lack of performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Does anyone know of a gauge that will provide peak cylinder pressure readings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Does anyone know of a gauge that will provide peak cylinder pressure readings? would this do http://www.harborfreight.com/14-piece-diesel-compression-tester-set-46800.html on your side of the atlantic too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 No, that's only for non-running engines. What I want to be able to measure is peak running pressure, all the tuning improvements will increase it, especially advancing the fuel pump and peak pressure is what blows head gaskets, like high-EGT is what errodes/melts the important bits. I've got everything running great up to about 90kph now (I can hit 95-100kph in 3rd actually) but then in 4th and 5th I top out around 120kph (got about 127 by removing the air filter entirely for one test so that's having some effect but I borrowed a filter and I don't think it was made for a tractor and doesn't have full-length perforations in it so I'll get a new one tomorrow that does) but even so I'm expecting to hit 145-150kph not 120..... I'll probably install the electric fuel pump to make sure the feed pressure is adequate and see if that helps; but that's a big power deficit either way.... I'm running out of ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Are you sure the lift pump is ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 It should be; I've used a number of different ones but I'm leaning more towards just using a 12V pump instead. I used one in an emergency and it seemed to work quite well. Just need to figure out where I left it. I guess installing a fuel pressure gauge in the feed line post-filter is probably a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Head gasket is coming to my mind at the minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Wouldn't a head gasket show during a compression test? The valves were also checked within about 15000km, turbo boost is solid.... I'm searching for the electric fuel pump to give that a try. I'm also thinking I should install a fuel pressure gauge in the bleed screw on the fuel pump so I can see drops caused by insufficient flow rates etc, just need to find one. Any ideas on what pressure range I should be looking for? My guess is between 5-15psi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 do you really want diesel coming into the cab via a capillary pressure gauge ? I wouldn't, reckon there's a fault with the FIP, have you examined the boost diaphragm on the FIP, if that is split you'll never get it working properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 reckon there's a fault with the FIP, have you examined the boost diaphragm on the FIP, if that is split you'll never get it working properly. A stuck boost diaphram doesnt explain the smoke he mensioned to start with, head gasket does. A blown head gasket wont always show up with a compression test, it wont always mix fluids either.. A stuck injector might not be helping your cause.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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