TIG Welding - A Mature Stuudunts (iinit) Report

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Well Its been a while since my last update thats cos other than posting up a selection of mullered bits of

ali there was not a lot to report.

The last few weeks have seen me at College practising, and struggling, eventually last night the penny dropped and things clicked into place

People go on about Clean Clean and Clean, and yes it does make a huge difference, but I would add onto that

Settings Settings and Settings. Last night for at least 2 hours I wondered if I had lost all ability to weld Ali at all.

I was on the same machine I had used before, and it just wouldn't put down even a decent bead on a lump of 3mm....gawd

knows what someone had been doing with it

and what settings that had in it - they al LOOKED OK...but .....

After much swearing and fretting I moved all controls to "Off" or zero, then went slowly through and set in the parmeters I sort of thought would be good

it was a Miller Invertor with Foot Pedal, so I just set pre gas, post gas, Amps, and balance and frequency and gas flow to 6 LPM

On the same lump of 3mm I worryingly hit the foot pedal...and a decent bead appearred

With a tad of fine tunning I was again happy, so happy that I decided to stop ferkin about and have a go at one of the 1st test pieces - 1.6mm ali

200 x 50 2 of Butt welded flat along a 1.6mm "Gap"....I did one piece and twiddled the frequency and cleaning a tickle, ran a 2nd test piece

which looked actaully ok esp considering I was fairly frazzled mood wise after 2 hrs of bugger all happening.

Took the test piece to the Instructor, who said "Yup quite good" we'll test that, and into the "Squish" machine it went, a ball whacking

the plate hard into a cup, and

IT PAST !

I was and am chuffed to bits, but, interestingly I went back to my little hutch and did 2 x more, and with tweaks I think V 3 was neater - but a pass was a pass, so

happy with the bead / settings / results I did a quick stab at test 2 - welding a pair of 200 x 50 Ali pieces from Bottom to the Top via a Lap weld.

1st one was a tad wobbly, 2nd one ......appearred at Instructors desk with hot lump in pliers

"Yup, thats good too, we will test that "....

That is Cut into 3 pieces, and one bit approx 50mm is then sawn across the top of the bead weld to weaken and then Folded back onto itself with a BFO

Hammer to expose the root of the weld, which is a disheartening thing to watch, thumpity thump thump band bang bang...perr ....PASS !

Christ !

here are the 3 x cut up pieces :

Yes, a bit wobbly and not at all pretty, but this is welding from bottom to top, not "level"

and I was still happy.....and the 3rd bit "Tested" and beaten about :

So, at the moment this thread will stop here, prob till september, as the year has finished (I iz on stoodenunt holidays innits ) but I return in sept

my aim is to pass Level 2 in Ali, which is a huge number of test pieces still to do and pass.

BUT, the course ha proved hugely benifical, some would say from the pics above that I can't really weld Ali - I would agree, I find starting and tacking

hugely annoying and difficult, I find ali can be you friend and quite forgiving and then kick and fight back and be a nightmare

I have learnt albiet only very recently that Clean Clean Clean is hugely importnat, but Setting Setting Setting is cucial to a smooth happy operator get

it right and its as though Ali welding is as simple as anything, but, setting off, even a tad, and it can be a big world of pain.

As the instructor said - Tig Steel, and learning that is about technique and practise, Ali is steel + settings, cleanlyness, knowing your machine, rods and rod size

and knowing when its not going right what to do, and practise - lots of it

And he is right

So, prob it for a while now, but its not over yet, and I have till Sept to practise at home

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Woooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooo

I am now officially "certified"

just started back again last week for more Ali instruction - aiming to qualify on that too

I do however look at the certificates and think that "yes" I have passed but its a tad like when you

pass yourdriving test - THEN you start to learn for real

But,i am chuufed so far

More to come

Nige

[Rob_B]

Congrats. That is a great skill to learn. Good luck with the ali.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Well new term and new instructor

this instructor has been a star watching me weld he has changed quite a few things which he does diferently to the previous one

and has suggested I start again on ali, with him, x12 weeks, and I am ok with this

Speaking to Paul & Rogue Vogue today who TIG at a high standard thier views is there are multiple ways to tig try

them all and see whats best for you - and thats what I am now doing

Ali is down now to 1.6mm as thats what this instructor likes to teach on - his view being thick ali can give bad habits when learning

1.6mm doesn't !

effort from tonight new methods .........

3 hrs later ...........

and rev side has fairly even and god penetration

getting there

I also liked how whilst I was working he rummaged through bits and when i stopped and loked up found this !!

lets see what the next 12 weeks brings

Nige

[V8 Freak]

Good to see you sticking with it Nige....

Looking good....

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

I have had a few PMs, asking around the TIG course, nd sort of how much do I use TIG for now vs say MIG

and although I can "weld" TIG (of a fashion) how much use is it ver MIG, why etc etc

Genuine Qs and sensible ones too

OK

For what its worth, why I use TIG over MIG

MIG is FAST, TIG is SLOW

But

TIG is gentle, and you can (if good enough) do tiny delicate welds where MIG however good you are will

turn something deliacte into a right mess

TIG is controllable, and you can do things with TIG that MIG is just not good for

TIG can often be seen as just for thin delicate stuff (which it is fab for) but peeps don't sometimes know

that you can TIG seriously thick stuff too with the right powered machines

So, a few things I have done for myself since passing :

Thin Tube / stuff :n shut and altered and tigged up

The thought of MIGing this makes me shudder !

Fabbing up a Mk2 Air Box from scrap bits of thin steel (1.4m)

and some thick stuff thats still delicate - special tools for Diff Assembly :

Tools lathed and milled and TIGed up for putting double lipped seals in Diffs

and also LR Dustsheilds onto Flanges available to Buy at Mad Money - cost to me virt Nil

And recently a "Adjuster" Tool for setting up bashlash on Diffs.

The "Tool" was made out of a cracked (TIGged up !) Socket, a lathed to bugery adjuster wheel 4 x M6 Nuts, and all

TIGged up to give me the unit again for Foxtrot Oscar The bolts are at the mo some M6 8.8s I had kicking about, these will

be replaced by 12.9s and should they bend or shear off can be replaced by unscrewing and renewing

And the unit made to remove heavyily stuck on Head Bearings off Pinions :

Avaiable here : http://www.dingocrof...aLRT_2d99_2d002 er £617.99

made here :

More offcuts, bug nuts some old threaded rod lathework and some TIGging er £0

God I am sad

And the above is just a small selection of things done - which is why I am delighted with my Efforts in learning

TIG as I have and then using it alongside MIG

There will be some I know who would comment the welds are not good with this that or the other wrong with them - correct

I am not a proffesional coded welder, just a mad amatuer who desperately wnated and to some degree has learnt and now contuinues to learn

but had I known I would have been able to do the above TIG wise when I started out at college I prob would have doubted it !

TIG is defo the more you do the better you get, and I need lots of practise as I am getting fussy about

how pretty the welds do or do not look, such is the sadness I have sunk to, and the attraction of TIG

Nige

[landroversforever]

Lathed? ! Lathed Turned/turning etc!! .

I like the use of the old diff bit to make the tool . Would be a nice thing to make from a piece of billet

If it would be of interest I can get a couple of pictures to show the difference in sizes of TIG welds at work...

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

That would be a good thing to add to the thread

Nige

[landroversforever]

Here you are...

Firstly this is a fabricated staircase... The welded parts are about 15mm thick aluminium box and angle

http://s439.photobuc...nt=IMG_1669.jpg

And then the fine and delicate (and a weld by moi! ):

This time its stainless and the weld is about 1.5mm wide

[landroversforever]

Nige can you edit my post and add the & [/img ] Brackets to the first photo link please?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Tried by it doesn't like it I think the IMG when copied has a differing linky to the above

PM me the IMG Tag and I'll swap them around

Nige

[CwazyWabbit]

Here you are...

Firstly this is a fabricated staircase... The welded parts are about 15mm thick aluminium box and angle

And then the fine and delicate (and a weld by moi! ):

This time its stainless and the weld is about 1.5mm wide

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Righty ho then

An update of progress over the weeks !

This term as I may have mentioned I have a new instructor, who is Ali AC TIG based. He is also a hard task master but a great tutor

You get away with NOTHING, but that if you dig in and get on with it makes for a better learning curve and final result.

Anyway, this year I also got taken off the Invertor TIGs (as they "Help" with some of the modern gubbins, and shoved on a Mighty Miller

Machine, with more Knobs than Captain Kirk had to put up with, part of his learning curve is you have to understand learn and work out what the knobs

and levers do, where they need to be adjusted for, and what impacts they have individually and together

This is the control panel, the machine is the size of a small wardrobe !

Whilst it does look a big "Gulpy" when you see it as you do more, swap machines and learn it makes sense (slowly)

more happily I can no say that when I use this machine,after someone has set it in a certain way, (if its on AC) I just "Give it a go" on some scrap

see what the bead line is like, then make some adjustments, now understanding better what I can do to it to make changes

It seems to me that with Steel TIG learning is all about Technique, being able to hold torch at the right angle(s), feed the rod at the right angles

amounts and timings, and being able to "walk" with the torch hand over a weld run. this is the practise practise practise bit, and as you start

to pass level 1 and 2 test pieces your technique improves - the settings are actaully quite forgiving, and there is not a lot of them

Ali, ah, thats a different thing !

I learnt now that it is ALL OF THE ABOVE, plus settings settings, and all about getting them right and getting penetration

I have done many many weld runs on Ali which LOOKED really nice, turned over = non - you could still see the 2 cut edges and

not enough penertration, to get the penetration its technique AND Settings, and they have to be spot on

Level 2 Ali is also much harder in terms of passing the test pieces, they have to be fully welded full length AND a complusory stop and start within the test area

ALL test pieces are destruction tested, the 1st test piece is 2 flat plates TIGed together end to end, but level

WHEN you have a piece where the welds look right, have no undercut, have full penetration, have no touch downs or major flaws THEN and only then

will the instructor take it away, pop it in a flypress and whack the centre (where the stop and start MUST be) and then when nicely belted and dished

hold up to a bright light, slightest pinhole = FAIL, and slightest spliting (incorrect penetration) = FAIL

Took a while, but 1st piece Level 2 passed , next is then the same - 2 flat plates, but clamped and welded from the bottom to the top

vertically, sounds hard, yup, you bet, and it has to be as above, otherwise = FAIL

You start off with a 200 x 200mm 2 x squres and then tack together then mount in a vertical clamp, weld up, if a FAIL then guillotine off the centre and reweld the remaining smaller pieces. The final passed test piece has to be a minimum of 2 x 50x200mm and as above qulaity wise

Here are a few pics.

Welding bench with 200x200 mounted and welded up, looks nice ? = FAIL, poor penetration uneven weld pool string, blobbly at base start, undercut

erm poor start stop, er otherwise fine ......

Finally did pass both flat and vertical test pieces 1 and 2, the weld pool is "Prettier" on the flat one than the vertical, that cos if ferkin tougher to

weld from the bottom to the top 200mm and stop and start and not screw up !

rear shows good penetration over the 200mm

Next was Test piece 3

This is a overlapping weld, and then destruction tested by sawing out the centre 50mm then folding the weld back on itself until it shears

if there is any sign of the welded metal havingan "Edge" = FAIL as this means the weld was not fully penetrating, again this takes time to

gain, often the weld "Look" is the same its the depth of the weld that makes the differences, this can be speed, rod dip, amps or "Balance"

or a combo of the lot, but a learning curve and yes this test piece is again welded bottom to top

A pass

(finally)

If you look at where the ali weld has broken it is exactly that the weld has "Sheared" and broken to weld - not "Torn" where only part welded

So, I am half way though this term, which breaks for christmas and then goes into 2013, I have 2 x test pieces left before I qulaify and pass level 2

A T Fillet - T pieces of ali welded bottom to top and then sheared as in previous test - failing so far but very very close !

and then last a Tube welded to a flat plate, cut into 4 and then shear tested again, oh and then the written exam

Ho Hum, and onward !

However, there is absoloutely NO doubt in my mind that doing Ali makes you better when you go back to Steel DC TIG, the disipline in AC

means it crashes back into your DC work, where as if you stop at DC you can TIG but by doing Ali its gets prettier when going back to DC

Yes, I do need to get out more

Hope this is of interest

Level 2 Ali Pass is almost now in sight !

Then I start to really learn to TIG

Nige

[ejparrott]

Really would like to learn to TIG, your little article and photos is at the same time giving me the will to go and do a course, and putting me off!

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Don't be put off !

A GOOD Course (there are some hopeless ones about) and a decent instructor will make you chuffed you did, MIG can pretty much be self taught, yes you'll pick up some bad habits but the welds will be OK once you have the MIG set right, and reading say on the MIG Forum can point you in the right direction

MIG is good for a huge range, but where MIG is not TIG takes over

You'll also find your MIG Improves as well, as you get to REALLYsee a weld pool form dip by Dip !

Go for it, start with Level 1 TIG DC Steel, and you'll be pleased you learnt. DC TIG Machines can be bought for small moneys, a 120AMP TIG DC set is VERY VERY different to a 120MIG set !

Go for it, I did, got the Bug badly now

Nige

[CwazyWabbit]

It's like the difference between painting with a 4 inch brush and a fine artists brush Each has their place.

[ejparrott]

Warwickshire college does an evening class.....missed this years course start....maybe next september.....

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

It's like the difference between painting with a 4 inch brush and a fine artists brush

An nice analagy

Mine is that my fine artists brush seem to be the one that has a couple of stray hairs that F things up when going so well .....

Go for it Mr P, the whole idea of this thread is to show it can be done - I am not and never will be a pro welder - forget the "quallys" that doesn't mean that

much their are old boys out there who prob have none and whose welds would put mine to shame, I did this thread to spur othes on to

do it, and as such I can say I have really enjoyed the courses, Ali is the pinnacle, I am not going further than Level 2 Ali, that will do me, then loads of practise

will see me improve further, quallys are nice but meaningless for me, a "Nice to have" the fact I CAN is what I set out to et to

In fact I am now "Growling" at "Failing" test pieces being the last 2, but, if you had shown me my last Tuesdays "Fails" before I set out on the course

I would have said "Never" go for it !

Nige

[vulcan bomber]

Warwickshire college does an evening class.....missed this years course start....maybe next september.....

See you there if I have the funds....

[ejparrott]

I'm sold......I'm being booked in next September...I have the wife's permission!

[bishbosh]

Nige, did the "PER" get erased by the test rig?

Oh, and the word is not usually hyphenated either...

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Droll Sir Bish very very droll, had to look a couple of times before the penny dropped

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Happy Bunny Tonight i iz

25th Jan 2012 enrolled Level 1 DC Tig, 18th Dec (tonight) passed last test piece for

Level 2 AC (Ali) TIG

Last test piece is "Tube on Plate", 1.6mm tube and as similarly on Level 2 Ali destruction tested

So after this was a written exam, passed as well, so I will have a nice shiney A4 certificate for the workshop wall

Serioulsy now the fun starts the more I use this new skill the better the welds and results will be, I have 4 weeks left

and I am going to do some extra weld test pieces I would like to pass from Level 3 AC TIG., and I am going to have

some lessons on Pulse usage and set up

The instructor has suggested I do Level 3

I have the booklets and will have a lookie and a thinky, but I doubt it

I have now what I started out to achive, and now its down to practise practise and more practise

May not be "The End" as I have 4 x weeks next year

Damned good course(s) hope this spurs others on

Nige

[CwazyWabbit]

Just been reading this again, can't believe it's 18 months since you finished this, how's the tig welding now?

[ProteuS]

I thought this might be the thread for these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygcm0AQXX9k

HDR Tig goggles.