Which chassis to rebody

[FridgeFreezer]

Ref the comments about using defender LT77 - that's all well and good in the UK where we can get these things, but I suspect in the states they're not common (they didn't really get Defenders, and those they did were NAS-spec autos), plus the point of the project seems to be to re-use the whole RR drivetrain which will pretty much guaranteed be either a ZF4HP22 auto + LT230 transfer or ZF4HP22 + Borg Warner transfer (no diff lock, viscous coupling).

Green bible is indeed the Series 3 factory workshop manual, available from most good parts suppliers. The parts books for Series & RRC are also well worth having. I'd recommend talking to Bill at Great Basin Rovers for all things like this.

The Rover V8 (AKA Buick 215) is a simple and reliable lump that will go for miles, unfortunately they are so tolerant of wear they can be completely shagged out and still run like a sewing machine (albeit with the same BHP output as one). In RRC you will find 3.5 carbed (135hp), 3.5 EFI (165hp) and 3.9 EFI (185hp), the later 4.0/4.6 lumps added cross-bolted crank bearings and the 4.6 gains you more grunt but they do suffer liner slip. Lots of anorak info: http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/2011/06/20/engines-rover-v8/

The length of the engine & transmission is less of a problem with the auto as the gear shifter is cable-operated so you have some flexibility there. In the unlikely event you get a manual box, this is the issue you face - the RR/Disco put their sticks at the back of the box, the Defender has them 12" further forward plus (usually) a ~6" shorter bellhousing and input shaft:

The running gear is the same deal as the Series really, the early stuff was basically the same thing but wider, disc-braked and with different ratios - you can run it forever, over here it's like Jeep stuff is in the states, all the parts are available & cheap. Over there it may not suit your purpose (if you're rock crawling you'll blow it apart) but it's up to the job it was made for and will go on forever if maintained & not hammered on. Upgrades are available both over here and over there but the prices may put you off compared to dropping something locally available and bulletproof in. Very much depends what you're doing and how heavy you are on the skinny pedal.

[BFRieck]

I was wondering about some of that. Y'all were throwing around the use of Defender parts like they are lying around everywhere which is not the case here by any means. I rarely see one on the roads around here - I think I know of two people that have one in a city of close to a million souls. Discos are more common but not nearly so much as RR's. So, I will probably wind up with an autobox - not all bad considering where I want this all to lead - basically RR comfort, power, and speed with Series looks - I'll use my Series III for the heavy off road lifting. My hotrodding (years ago, I built a Model T roadster pickup from scratch) efforts led me to use autos because they were easier to install and worked better (grossly overpowered lightweight vehicles - in a scratch built vehicle, not having to deal with a clutch and shifter linkage saves a lot of headaches even if perhaps not as "pure" in the end).

The shift linkage required for an autobox facilitates shifter location by quite a bit. I'll still have to deal with the transfer case lever, I guess, unless it too is remotely operated - what about that?

I read the linked history of the Buick V8 and it seems that I have at least 10 years' of RR model years' production (86-96, no?) to look to for a chassis - be nice to get EFI, I think. Seems that motor is, in a way, almost the British equivalent of our small block Chevy.

After all this input (beyond my wildest dreams and greatly appreciated, I might add) I think I will be looking for a 1986-1996 RR Classic rolling chassis with as little mileage and damage as I can find among those vehicles that have had enough body damage to make them unlikely to return to the road in original form. It seems I should try to narrow the span of model years to get an EFI lump, and not try too hard to find a manual tranny car since they are inevitably going to be rare (I've a number of friends that have had RR's for years and I can't remember a manual among them). Does that sound about right?

[ejparrott]

Please please please fill in the location in your profile, then we won't keep forgetting you're on the other side of the pond!

Ok so defender LT's aren't avaliable. In that case, I still say yes it can be done, but you might need to get cute with where the engine and tranny are mounted in order to get a rear prop that isn't 2 UJ's welded back to back. This might also mean juggling where the rad sits too, but I can assure you anything is possible if you put your mind to it! As FF rightly says autos are cable operated and so you can mount the shifter wherever you want, within reason, which aleviates that problem. I'm certain too that if the transfer lever ended up under the seatbox, you could easily make up a new linkage for it that maybe even appeared on the face of it to be a fairey OD lever. wasn't there something on early RR and 101 that had something to do with vacuum and the transfer box?

You're right about body damage wrecking a perfectly good motor. If you knacker B pillars on a RR then its much harder to repair than on a series or defender, so insurance companies will just walk away...shame really.

Let us know what you find, keep us up with piccys, you'll find lots of help here. If you need me to try and get exact details of what we did to my friends 88 I'll find out for you...it does involve early rangy and disco bits though...if they're avaliable over there?

[CwazyWabbit]

You should start a build thread under the members vehicles forum ...... you could add pictures of the bodywork you currently have to start with

[FridgeFreezer]

If you can get a 3.9 motor it's a worthwhile increase in torque, EFI is indeed preferable, the systems aren't perfect but they're simple by modern standards and either will convert nicely to Megasquirt & EDIS.

Transfer box linkages are not too much faff, I believe some Disco2's had cable-operated linkages but they used to be silly money for the parts, you may get lucky though.

Later trucks will have more kit to deal with - ABS brakes, catalytic converters, etc. which could make plumbing and wiring a bit of a mare. Early RR brake servos bolt with a bit of adaptation to a Series pedal box, later ones don't and the ABS ones are a different kettle of fish altogether.

[CwazyWabbit]

Currently 245 pounds from ashcrofts for the cable operated hi/lo/difflock linkage..... http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=137

Plus of course whatever the export costs are..... oh and they are currently out of stock.

[FridgeFreezer]

Since I just tripped over them in the house:

AKM3648 is the Series 3 green bible,

RTC9841 is the Series 3 parts book,

RTC9908CB is the RR parts book (might not need the "CB" on the end but that's what mine says)

[BFRieck]

Back home after a weekend of messing with the Series III at the ranch (and a central Texas snowfall! - which lasted about 20 minutes but something we never see - should be about 70 F today, though!). I do have a "Green Bible" after all - apparently it came with the Series III - are there green bibles for other than Series III trucks (like IIa's)?

As you all know, I'm new to this forum and I just want to say how grateful I am to everyone for their sage advice - I'm sure I asked a bunch of questions that have been answered a thousand times before. Nevertheless, not one of you suggested that I should spend more time searching and less time asking and I appreciate that. Now, I'm off to find a suitable RR wreck - I'll probably have more questions when I find one (and before I buy it) to make sure I don't screw up big time.

BTW, I have updated my profile, sorry to have to be reminded twice to do that.

[ejparrott]

No worries, we're here to help!

[FridgeFreezer]

we're here to help!

I'm not

Back on topic, yes there are manuals for everything LR made, although after the RRC it all goes computerised (RAVE) I think. Those are free to download, pinned at the top of the part numbers forum.

[BFRieck]

Thanks for the info. I'll check it out - those will clearly come in handy once I start the RRC search for a rolling chassis to rebody.

[BFRieck]

One more question: For my purposes, is there any significant difference between a RR Classic and a Discovery of the same my? If so, is the RR Classic necessarily preferable?

[ejparrott]

Now you've got me on that one....RR I know works from experience, at least a '76 model, disco 1 I'm not so sure about. My understanding is that there's little difference - some details like axles are different, but for you to modifiy into an 88" coil sprung chassis, I don't think there'll be any issues. you must be certain of what you've got though, to aid ordering spares.

[BFRieck]

Being able to use either an RR Classic or a Disco complete rolling chassis makes the pool of available body damage only wrecks a good deal bigger. That's a plus here stateside where the selection is probably nowhere near what it is in the UK. I'm only finding about a half dozen '86-'96 salvage title RR's offered and only a couple of those are suitable on account of the type of damage, mileage, or other reasons for their not being deemed repairable. If I throw in the Discos, I probably increase availability by a factor of 1.5 or 2.

[FridgeFreezer]

Between a RR and Disco of the same-ish year the only major difference is the body. RR's tended to have better spec engine management (EG the Range Rovers got EFi while Discos stayed on carbs, then Discos went to Flapper while RR upgraded to hotwire). LR also did this with other bits like ABS, cats, that sort of thing (RR's got stuff earlier) so there will be differences with things like axles/brakes, but nothing that should really affect the job at hand.

[BFRieck]

Cool. Sounds like I might be able to go with a later model Disco (and its likely lesser mileage, etc.) while avoiding the increasing complexity as the cars get newer. As a general rule, I prefer EFI over carbs - do you know when each of the models (RR vs Disco) got EFI? Although I fear showing my ignorance, I need to ask what you mean by "Flapper" and "hotwire" - the rest I think I understand.

[rangieman]

hi new here (first time).

can i rebody a disco or range rover with a kit body without having to iva or re reg?

[FridgeFreezer]

hi new here (first time).

can i rebody a disco or range rover with a kit body without having to iva or re reg?

It's a can of worms, you might be better off starting a new thread asking the question (at which point a HUGE argument will break out). Ultimately, only VOSA can answer that, you're best off reading the official rules & working it out for yourself.

[CwazyWabbit]

I agree .... with both points

[Snagger]

Absolutely right - there are varying opinions on what constitutes chassis alteration, for example, or "radical changes" to the vehicle. I suspect the same is true within VOSA, with some of their SVA and VIC testers having varying degrees of pragmatism or literal interpretation of rules. My guess would be that if you don't have to cut or weld the chassis in any way other than repairs to rust damage and you use most of the mechanical items without alteration (overhaul of components is fine), then it should keep its original ID even with a different body as the body does not contribute to the vehicle's VIN points. It might need an SVA test, though, as it won't conform to RRC or Discovery approval.