ChrisLR2 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hi Could somebody please help me, what would you recommend as the best oils/fluids etc to use in my 1993 Defender 90? I want to drain the oils out of the gearbox, transfer box and both axles/diffs and replace with nice brand new stuff - as I have no idea when it was last done. Details are below: Gearbox = standard LT77 Transfer box = standard LT230 Front axle/diff = standard 200TDi Rear axle/diff = fitted from a 300TDi (so disc brakes at the back, if that makes a difference) Also how much oil will I need, how much does each part take to fill up to the correct point? Sorry I'm asking for quite a lot of info here, so I very much appreciate everyones help. Thank you Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 if you don't have a workshop manual click here to find one all the fliuds & capacity,grades to use are in here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 LT77 takes ATF. The axles and transfer box take EP90 gear oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 And one shot grease in the swivles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 1993 will be a railko bush swivel I think, so EP90 normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Your question is complicated by changing lubricant specifications. The lubricant manufacturers fiddle with their products on a regular basis, doubtless for a variety reasons (commercial as well as technical), and consequently the LR spec'ed lubricants aren't necessarily what LR spec'ed when they drafted the owner's manual or sent out a technical bulletin to revise those specs. For example, EP90 is typically graded with reference to the American Petroluem Institute's grades. The standard current API rating for gear lube intended for hypoid gears (such as the crown wheel and pinion gear) is API GL5; however GL5 has high-pressure additivies that may corrode soft 'yellow' metals such as brass or copper. As the diffs (including the centre diff) have phosphor bronze washers behind the planetary gears, there may be a risk of corrosion should you buy GL5-rated EP90. I have seen reference in a white paper published by Amsoil (IIRC) that gear oils that ALSO meet the MT-1 rating are more likely to be compatible with 'yellow' metals (the quote here is from the introductory section of that paper): "API MT- 1 is independent of API GL-5. API MT-1 calls for a higher level of oxidation stability, copper corrosion resistance and seal compatibility, which is not provided by API GL-4 or GL-5. Not all gear lubes meet API MT-1 performance standards." So choosing the correct lubricants can present some challenges. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Not picking holes in what you've said BUT diffs including centre diff don't have soft phosphor bronze or brass thrust washers behind the gears. They would last a few revolutions under load and dissintigrate. The thrust washers are hardened (heat treated) steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 My centre diff thrust washers are yellow metal (ie copper/brass) I have just had to renew mine as they were wafer thin and the new ones were also yellow metal and not hardened steel. The first set lasted just under 200k so slightly more than a few revolutions! I would have thought hardened steel thrust washers were have worn the gears and diff housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ok I think there are copper ones in the centre diff. But you'll not find these in a axle diff. They don't work. Phosphor bronze would dissapear rapidly. Copper cracks and breaks up when used in this application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ok I think there are copper ones in the centre diff. But you'll not find these in a axle diff. They don't work. Phosphor bronze would dissapear rapidly. Copper cracks and breaks up when used in this application. you dont know much about phosphor bronze then... Its one of the best bearing materials there is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam90 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Hi im just doing this to mine as far as i know you want MTF 94 for your lt77 not sure how many litres but its 2.7 for the r380 EP80/90 for the LT230 and axels 2.3 litres and axels 1.7 each Thats what i have read dont quote me if not 100% accurate hope it helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Nearly right, LT77s use ATF Dextron II/III, not MTF94. Though I have heard of people using MTF in LT77s without issue, I'll stick with what was specified for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisLR2 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Thank you everybody for your responses - special thanks to Sam90 for all the quantities I will need, much appreciated. Ok my weekend job now is sorted. My rear hub seals are weeping slightly aswell - is there anything I need to know when replacing them/other things to look at whilst I'm under there people can think of? Thanks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam300Tdi90 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If it's leaking, and you're going to relace them IMO you may as well do the lot.. i.e. bearings as well. As you have to take all of it apart anyway. But that might be just me. Regardless, buy genuine seals unless you wanna waste your time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 And there is no point putting a new seal on if the stub axle is shagged! the seal land needs to be smooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieEater3142 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hi im just doing this to mine as far as i know you want MTF 94 for your lt77 not sure how many litres but its 2.7 for the r380 EP80/90 for the LT230 and axels 2.3 litres and axels 1.7 each Thats what i have read dont quote me if not 100% accurate hope it helps Got the same oils for my project. They're all sat on the shelf ready. Looked around at ATF vs MTF and people have said that MTF seems better. Hope so cos the stuff is far more expensive than the ATF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 LT77 should have ATF in it. That what LR specify so that's what I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieEater3142 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Knew I read it on here somewhere: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=31642 I know that MTF94 isn't ideal but from that I decided to go with it over ATF. Was this a mistake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm not an expert so I've gone with what seems to be recommended. For a definitive answer a call to ashcroft transmissions wouldn't go amiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 MTF94 is what's used in the R380 which is just an LT77 with a hat on, so it can't be *that* bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I thought MTF 94 basically superceded ATF in the gearbox applications, so it is backwards compatible?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerboy_y2k Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 ATF is what Ashcrofts still recomend for LT77's on their website. MTF94 was developed for Rover group by Texaco so that they could use one oil in all their manual 'boxes Rover and Land Rover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I believe there is a difference in viscosity which the oil pump may have issue with, depending on its condition. But I have heard people run MTF in LT77 gearboxes without issues, so give it a go and see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I did run MTF94 in my LT77 once upon a time. I didnt notice any difference to ATF. I've recently tried the difflock evo1 stuff and i have to confess, i'm struggling to justify the cost as i cant notice a great difference to the ATF again! My reccomendation would probably be to use ATF in the LT77 and change it more often than recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Mtf is aparently a bit thinner than ATF to give better gear changes.. Having had an LT77 and an R380 in my 110, i cant tell the difference between the oils, there even the same colour! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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