np435 to series (paging bill )

[crossy]

Bill, any one?

I'm fitting a ford F100 np435 to my series - I've got the transfer case adapter and output shaft sorted. Looking for advice on mounting the series bell housing to the ford box. (afaik Bills done this mod before)

Bill, did you drill and tap the ford case to suit the bell - or how ???

thanks

Simon

[bill van snorkle]

Bill, any one?

I'm fitting a ford F100 np435 to my series - I've got the transfer case adapter and output shaft sorted. Looking for advice on mounting the series bell housing to the ford box. (afaik Bills done this mod before)

Bill, did you drill and tap the ford case to suit the bell - or how ???

thanks

Simon

I actually adapted Warner T98's Simon, but much the same would apply to the NP435. I machined the spigot diameter (register) off the series bellhousing where it centres in the series gearbox case. I then step bored the input shaft bearing bore of the bell housing so that it centred on the T98 input shaft bearing and circlip. I drilled and tapped the front face of the gearbox to the landy pattern and for extra support drilled and tapped two more bolt holes through both the bellhousing and gearbox. I also opened up the 4 top holes in the oilbath clutch throwout bearing housing to 3/8'' and tapped the holes in the bell housing to 3/8 UNC.

Unlike the T98 which has a flush front and rear face, the layshaft bearing housings on the NP435 protrude a bit, so you may have to clearance the bell housing.

How are you compensating for the lack of tail bearing in the transfercase pto cover plate?For extra support my transfercase adaptor plate has a ball bearing spaced 12mm behind the gearbox rear bearing. Both bearings are separated by an oil seal.

Bill.

[crossy]

How are you compensating for the lack of tail bearing in the transfercase pto cover plate?For extra support my transfercase adaptor plate has a ball bearing spaced 12mm behind the gearbox rear bearing. Both bearings are separated by an oil seal.

Bill.

Thanks Bill.

The 435 shaft (2x4 version) is long enough to (almost) exactly replicate the series shaft. (with a heap of $$$ machining) So it will use the standard series tail bearing setup. The only problem I had was getting enough spline engagement with the output gear - which is now on backwards to achieve this. The adapter is only a 1" thick plate machined up to clear the countershaft bearing cover + machined to fit the output bearing. Also I will be linking the oil fillers so the case and box share oil. (no more $%#$% leaking seal).

I'm looking forward to getting this done - that 6.7:1 first gear (although the 8:1 reverse is going to be a PITA)

Oh yeah this is going behind a holden 202, would there be any advantage in using a holden bellhousing over the series / holden conversion I've already got?

Cheers

Simon

[bill van snorkle]

It has just occurred to me that Ford input shafts are a bit short to work in a LandRover bell housing. I used the longer International input shafts shortened and resplined to Rover pattern. Or you could cut the Ford shaft short, and graft a section of Rover shaft to it. Even with the biggest engines there is very little torque at the input shaft relative to the rest of the driveline so a cut and shut job is quite acceptable.

Bill.

[crossy]

6 1/2 " the same as the t18/98 ?????? (from specs - haven't actually measured it though. you got me worried now)

same spline as the rover.

I'm a bit lost ATM as I don't have a spare bellhousing to play with. Still driving the landie

[bill van snorkle]

Thanks Bill.

The 435 shaft (2x4 version) is long enough to (almost) exactly replicate the series shaft. (with a heap of $$$ machining) So it will use the standard series tail bearing setup. The only problem I had was getting enough spline engagement with the output gear - which is now on backwards to achieve this. The adapter is only a 1" thick plate machined up to clear the countershaft bearing cover + machined to fit the output bearing. Also I will be linking the oil fillers so the case and box share oil. (no more $%#$% leaking seal).

I'm looking forward to getting this done - that 6.7:1 first gear (although the 8:1 reverse is going to be a PITA)

Oh yeah this is going behind a holden 202, would there be any advantage in using a holden bellhousing over the series / holden conversion I've already got?

Cheers

Simon

I rather like the low reverse for backing trailers etc, but it is a PITA if you miss a turn off and have to reverse a couple of hundred metres. The other thing is it's virtually impossible to roll start the engine in reverse gear. Combined with the Holden Stromberg carburator not liking steep hills and stalling due to fuel starvation this became more than just an inconvenience on numerous occasions.

I have never really liked the look of the Holden bell housing. They are not full circle, so would be difficult to water/mud proof, and may not be strong enough to support the heavy gearbox/transfercase assembly.

Bill.

[bill van snorkle]

6 1/2 " the same as the t18/98 ?????? (from specs - haven't actually measured it though. you got me worried now)

same spline as the rover.

I'm a bit lost ATM as I don't have a spare bellhousing to play with. Still driving the landie

I'll try to find and measure a Rover shaft in the morning. But pretty sure a cut and shut is the only practical option.

Bill.

[crossy]

Here's a pic of the adapter and shaft in place.

Found a ruler yet Bill ?

[bill van snorkle]

Here's a pic of the adapter and shaft in place.

Found a ruler yet Bill ?

Would you believe my boss had a clean up on the week end and weighed in all the series gearboxes at the scrap yard ?We do mostly defender and RangeRover work these days, but we have a Series 3 booked in for a clutch job on Monday, so I will measure the shaft then.

As you mentioned you have done a lot of work modifying that mainshaft.

Did you know that the short mainshaft International and some F250 Np 435's had almost the correct spline for the landrover transfer case gear. you just have to bore ID of the gear out a little and grind theOD of the shaft for a perfect fit. You don't get the tail bearing, but you can fit an additional bearing in that adaptor plate to compensate.

Bill.

[crossy]

Now ya tell me. doh. $300 worth of machining : (

re - input shaft length :

The holden conversion fitted in my heap is basically an adapter ring around 2" thick. pretty sure it's a crs conversion. I'm thinking I should be able to mill this down to compensate for the shorter ford shaft. Any thoughts ?

[bill van snorkle]

Now ya tell me. doh. $300 worth of machining : (

re - input shaft length :

The holden conversion fitted in my heap is basically an adapter ring around 2" thick. pretty sure it's a crs conversion. I'm thinking I should be able to mill this down to compensate for the shorter ford shaft. Any thoughts ?

Simon,I think that would move the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate too hard up against the clutch release bearing. We had an R380 input shaft cut and shortened about 90mm recently at a cost of $80. I feel that cutting the NP shaft and welding a LR shaft to it would cost about the same .

Bill.

[bill van snorkle]

OK Simon, i have taken some measurements of a series 3 input shaft and thrust bearing sleeve.

The distance from the back face of the bellhousing to the end of the input shaft , once you have lathed off the spigot diameter that centred the Landey box is 182 mm. the length of the spigot bush journal on the shaft is 27 mm. Length of spline protruding through thrust bearing sleeve is 43mm. Length of thrust bearing sleeve is 70mm.

Put another way, if you are bolting the LandRover bellhousing direct to the front of the NP435, then your input shaft should stick out from the front face of the gearbox a total of 182mm. If you use say a 10 mm spacer plate to save machining the bellhousing then your shaft will have to stick out 192mm.

Hope this helps.

Bill.

[Dave64]

Hi,

Realise this is quite an old post, but can anyone confirm if 'Bill' is still active on the forums or still in your club. Sounds like he is the bloke to contact re any advice on NP435's.

Cheers, Dave64

[qwakers]

bill van snorkle

Member Since 18 Jun 2006
OFFLINE Last Active Dec 28 2014 12:27 AM

[Lewis]

You can contact Bill fairly easily on facebook

[Dave64]

Hi Lewis,

Thanks for the reply re trying to contact Bill van Snorkel.

I tried unsuccessfully to do as you suggested (facebook) but I am neither proficient in computers, besides it keeps telling me that I have to be a member to contact others. Is there any way anyone would have either his phone number, email address or how I can contact him?

I have an engine/transmission that needs an adapter plate machined up and was hoping he could give me a few clues.

Cheers, Dave

[Dave64]

Hi Guys,

Had a bit of a look and took a few measurements on this. Having a 10mm thick adapter plate (8.5-9mm after machining flat) whose inner circle bolts to existing Range Rover 200 TDI 2.5 diesel fixed with socket head cap screws in existing location. Standard Ford F100 cast iron bell housing will attach to another ring of bolts OUTSIDE that circle. Had to use the DODGE truck version of the input shaft, bit over 8.5 inch. Ford, Dodge and even International harvester versions of NP435 input shafts interchangeable, bearing retainers are NOT, so bit of machining required to fit either Inter or Dodge retainer to Ford bell indexing hole. Had to have a spigot bush turned up to size for R/Rover crankshaft bore and Dodge input shaft tip.

Gave machinist the original alloy R/R bell, the Ford cast iron bell, plus a sheet of 500 X 600 X 10mm thick mild steel plate, already pre drilled to the 200 TDI housing bolt holes and dowell pin locators.

A few little pieces of machining, drilled the clutch throwout lever fulcrum rivets out, install a 10mm flat plate between the fulcrum and the back of the bellhousing wall, to correct both travel and angle of throw.

I used the original R/R pressure plate (9.5") with a 1971-1981 Chrysler 9.5" clutch plate (23 spline X 1"), but had a longer female spline made into the new plate (twice the normal depth). The original set up used a flat face clutch throwout bearing, which I (and my clutch man considered incorrect), so we substituted the bearing with one with the raised face on it. Pressed it and an extended collar onto the original Ford throwout bearing carrier plate.

This may seem like a lot of excessive ginning around, BUT it does have a few advantages. Can use std off the shelf parts for most things, pressure plate, throwout bearing, Ford bearing retainer etc. One added advantage is I can also directly bolt the NP445 all synchro close ratio box to the Ford bellhousing (445 has added lugs which were drilled out to suit the Ford bell at the bottom, top holes were simply sleeved with dowells from 9/16" down to 7/16"). I can also simply by changing the bellhousing to each gearbox, revert to putting a Dodge box behind a Ford engine, or vice versa, simply by changing the input shafts).

Anyone contemplating having a play with these NP435 boxes, just be wary of a few things. The Ford F truck is the best to work with as they are so common here in Oz. I actually swapped the last one for spares, cost me a carton of stubbies (beer, approx cost $45). Second most readily available is the Dodge box (couple of different versions, I used the one from behind the 6 cylinder HD hemi engine, every second farmer has had one at one stage, cost, one large bottle of Bundy Rum). The Inter can also be obtained reasonable easy but are a bit trickier because although all internals are the same, have different cases, input set ups as well as different outputs.

Although the NP445 will bolt up to anything, anywhere the 435 will, the box itself is getting extremely hard to get hold of, and very few internals available, if at all. I think you SHOULD be able to get seals and bearings, gaskets etc, but hard parts may be a different story. I bought the box from the US, payed for it in April this year, arrived and cleared by customs only a week ago.

Way I figure it, going to install the 445 behind the 200TDI. If the box has a hemorrhage, simply reswap the bellhousing onto the 435 and drop it in.

I haven't added anything about the output side of the transmissions, as there are half a dozen mobs who can pull conversion kits off the shelf, e.g. Novak, Advance Adapters, plus a few smaller outfits who make adapters to any number/style of transfer cases. My project calls for a simple engine swap to transmission.

Why go to all the trouble? First off, I am a 'tinkerer', can't help myself, someone says it can't be done, makes me all that more determined. Secondly, these NP435 boxes are legendary for toughness, can be very easily obtained, are extremely simple to work on.had been used by just about every manufacturer since 1960 odd, still installing them in certain applications up until the 90's

Drawbacks? NOT an overdrive box, 4th is still direct. They are a very heavy box, quite large, someone once described them as a mass of huge gears encased in cast iron!. Sure, you can break them, break anything doing something ridiculous, but matched to the right engine/T.C, setup properly, they really are almost 'bulletproof'.

Bloke in the US even tinkered around with changing the input tooth/ countershaft tooth count thereby altering internal ratios ending up with 3rd gear as an overdrive ratio, direct 4th as normal, 2nd gear as an underdive. Interesting concept, ended up with almost the same ratios as the Chrysler A833 truck transmission, maybe a future project? got plenty of spare 435's laying around.

Cheers, Dave