series 3 towing 3.5ton

[discomikey]

now we all know that the series towing limits are a bit of a grey area. land rover seemed not to show it about a lot.

as a result i dont actually know what mine can tow. i know its more than the 2ton reccommended capacity on the plate because the log book says different. exept it doesent say anything on mine.

Also ive heard that later series 3's had a towing capacity of 3.5t.

and i also seem to remember somewhere that you could replate a model if another vehicle in the same model had a higher capacity. i.e. the later series 3's, as long as the suspension/brakes/engine was updated to the same spec as the model with the higher capacity.

is this true?

also id like some more information on the series 3 capacities. as aparently land rover did eventually publish a detailed spec sheet for all their models at the time.

[Gazzar]

My 1981 109 is rated at 4000kg, though I think I've to have coupled brakes to do that - or so I'm told - nothing on the LR about it.

I've dual circuit servo brakes with the 11" drums, It stops very well indeed - even with a full trailer.

I don't know how you'd go about getting a LR re-rated - who has the final word? But if you replaced the brakes with the same spec as mine, and everything else was the same, then you'd have a fair argument. usual caveats - tell your insurer,and anyone else that has the right to bash you if you don't.

G.

[disco2hse]

The 109 is typically capable of towing 4 tonnes, braked and 750k unbraked. There are many variations on that, depending on brake setup, drum size, etc. The question is not what it can pull but what it can stop.

Different jurisdictions limit the weight according to local statue, for example in NZ the maximum weight limit for a vehicle like a Land Rover Series III is normally 3.5 tonnes braked and 750kg unbraked. Lower limits can be imposed depending on the coupling, etc.

[Phil Hancock]

Series 3 chassis plate says 2 ton and the handbook says 4 ton with coupled brakes.

[discomikey]

yes. well it says reccommended 2 ton. but there is no real answer to overrun braked trailers. however i have seen a series 3 plated at 3.5ton

[Gazzar]

As I say - mines plated at 4000kg. Post-rationalisation 109. 1981 petrol.

G.

[discomikey]

thats with coupled brakes though. which im looking into now. does anyone have any information on them. a google search shows that poeple have said its possible, and was an option. but there are no detailed threads about it.

[mickeyw]

yes. well it says reccommended 2 ton. but there is no real answer to overrun braked trailers. however i have seen a series 3 plated at 3.5ton

As far as I was concerned 2 ton (old imperial ton) is what was marked on the chassis plate of my 88" series II and III I had. Does the additional weight of a 109" mean it is rated at a higher towing capacity? I've never owned a 109"

It goes without saying that all trailers over 750kg should be braked. How well said brakes are working will have a lot to do with how well the towing vehicle can cope with the trailer in question.

Trailer brakes should be in tip top condition at all times, although sadly this is rarely the case as we have no system in the UK to inspect and regulate this. If the trailer brakes don't work at all well you will be standing on the stop pedal with both feet! Also, if you have knobbly tyres you may well find your towing vehicle struggling for grip on the tarmac too!

Other factors to consider - a 50mm towball is only rated to 3.5 metric tonnes. If you were to tow 4 tonnes of air braked trailer behind a Defender for example, you would need to fit a 5 tonne pin type hitch and the trailer be equipped accordingly.. If I wanted to tow 4t I would also be paying good attention to the condition of the rear of the tow vehicle. I would also not be asking such a task of a 2.25 petrol or diesel engine

As much as most Landrovers are physically capable of towing and stopping above their legally rated loads, the Rozzers are far more on the ball these days about overweight trailers and vans. Penalties are heavy. Best not to risk your license and other people's safety

[elbekko]

According to the almighty Google:

4 short tons = 3 628.73896 kilograms

So not too far off the 3500kg rating of later models, nor the towball rating.

[discomikey]

As far as I was concerned 2 ton (old imperial ton) is what was marked on the chassis plate of my 88" series II and III I had. Does the additional weight of a 109" mean it is rated at a higher towing capacity? I've never owned a 109"

It goes without saying that all trailers over 750kg should be braked. How well said brakes are working will have a lot to do with how well the towing vehicle can cope with the trailer in question.

Trailer brakes should be in tip top condition at all times, although sadly this is rarely the case as we have no system in the UK to inspect and regulate this. If the trailer brakes don't work at all well you will be standing on the stop pedal with both feet! Also, if you have knobbly tyres you may well find your towing vehicle struggling for grip on the tarmac too!

Other factors to consider - a 50mm towball is only rated to 3.5 metric tonnes. If you were to tow 4 tonnes of air braked trailer behind a Defender for example, you would need to fit a 5 tonne pin type hitch and the trailer be equipped accordingly.. If I wanted to tow 4t I would also be paying good attention to the condition of the rear of the tow vehicle. I would also not be asking such a task of a 2.25 petrol or diesel engine

As much as most Landrovers are physically capable of towing and stopping above their legally rated loads, the Rozzers are far more on the ball these days about overweight trailers and vans. Penalties are heavy. Best not to risk your license and other people's safety

thanks for the reply. i do know all of this, and in fact our trailer brakes are regularly serviced on all our trailers. as you say about the plate saying 2 tons, but it is a reccommended 2 tons. and where a lot of poeple would happily stick to that, i cant. i will tow as much as i am legally permitted. (i have B+E so its the vehicle holding me back.)

the chassis is galv, and the engine is a TDI. my brakes are always kept tip top, and while im on mud tyres im on goodyear wranglers which IMO are pretty good at stopping the vehicle.

if i were to fit a coupled brake system, which i am seriously thinking about, i am fully aware that i (or infact most poeple on here maybe with a few exceptions) even with coupled brakes are still legally limited to the 3500kg towing limit that we are liscenced to.

According to the almighty Google:

4 short tons = 3 628.73896 kilograms

So not too far off the 3500kg rating of later models, nor the towball rating.

this is correct too, but the complication is you need coupled brakes to tow that on a series. and the correct liscence

[steve b]

Didn't a ton used to be 2240lbs?

Therefore 4 tons = 4070kgs...

Maybe if you are always towing on the limit a different tow vehicle would be better - a Unimog maybe? A bigger investment granted , but much more capable of heavier towing even with earlier machines

cheers

Steveb

[mickeyw]

Mikey - if you do decide to go the air brake route, I know of someone who has fitted such a system to his 6x4 150" Defender V8. I may be able to find out various info on parts used.

He converted his Ifor Williams trailer to air brakes to go with this project, and I believe it cost a pretty penny to do.

Another point worth noting is that said chap was going through a gearbox (R380) every 6 months The combination of a 4.6 V8 and 4 tonne trailer behind the 150 was evidently too much for it. Since fitting a cooler to the gearbox I believe they are lasting slightly longer!

[Orgasmic Farmer]

My early 110 is rated to tow 4000kg on the plate and is ex Scottish Power. When I stripped it I found the old air receiver under the front wing but no other evidence of how the air brakes were set up. Bear in mind this was originally a 2.25 diesel I shudder to think how it coped! The official parts catalogue from that year has no info on air brakes in the extras/options section.

[discomikey]

Didn't a ton used to be 2240lbs?

Therefore 4 tons = 4070kgs...

Maybe if you are always towing on the limit a different tow vehicle would be better - a Unimog maybe? A bigger investment granted , but much more capable of heavier towing even with earlier machines

cheers

Steveb

its a nice thought. but i doubt a 19 year old such as myself could afford a second vehicle at all let alone a mog as a tow vehicle.

mickey.. i am considering air or hydraulic brakes yes and any info on parts and the general system could prove very useful.

even with the air brakes i would not be towing 4 tons. granted a TDI pulling 3.5t behind a series box does sound like a bad idea. but theyre not nearly as weak a box as poeple reckon.

[seriebil.dk]

Hi

I don't know about the UK rules, but i have just had my 1972 88" SIII approved for 3500 kg braked trailer towing , 750 kg unbraked.

and form experience, it works fine, slow but steady

[ejparrott]

If you want to tow weights that high, I'd use a 109, not an 88, be much more stable

[tony109]

So you have the B+E licience so what does that allow you to tow, weight wise?

Not so long ago, provided the vehicle outfit weighed under 71/2 ton you could drive it on a standard licience. I had a large steel lifeboat that I towed from Pool back home 130 mile or so. The Life boat was steel, 26 feet long and had balast, hidden under the bilge. Once loaded onto the trailer using the capstan winch with blocks, etc, it looked quite an outfit....

It was far heavier than imagined, and on pulling away the landrover twisted on its springs before the trailer even started to move. But pulling away at tickover in first low, there was not much objection from the engine, a 2.25 diesel I must add. And so I made my way slowly back to Cornwall. At a weigh bridge the GTW was close to 6 Tons.

Rediculously heavy but with a boat on a trailer and little else in the way of options I made my way slowly back to cornwall. 7500 KG was the max GTW with a standard licience, so I was under that. The trailer was fully braked and the Land Rover had lower ratios than standard to pull it all. Another Rule, which has probably all changed now Im sure, Is that, if a vehicle is 'adapted to carry' a greater weight, then it all remains legal. I never tested this theory out. But I did have heavier duty rear springs a fully braked 2 axel trailer and lower low range gearing.

So the land rover could move it, which to me at the time meant that while it would be very slow, but got me back home.

Its all in the gearing and the Brakes.

[mickeyw]

Tony, was that a 'one ton' spec 109"? I know they had a lower transfer gearing.

[discomikey]

If you want to tow weights that high, I'd use a 109, not an 88, be much more stable

EJ, youre correct, a 109 would be more stable to tow with, but i could never get rid of Brian, and the 88" wheelbase is a lot more useful strangely. in general use.

its surprisingly stable at towing heavy weights. but a 109 would be more stable. i must admit, ive got to tow a T20 from derbyshire down to dover for our Grey Fergie Challenge. then back up again once its finished. = a 4 hour trip down the motorway limited to 60. although close to the towing limit. id rather be doing the journey in a 109 but our trailer follows really well and stably with a lot of weight on it being triaxle.

[discomikey]

Tony, was that a 'one ton' spec 109"? I know they had a lower transfer gearing.

they had lower gearing in low and highbox, not just low as tony says.

[tony109]

they had lower gearing in low and highbox, not just low as tony says.

I had 2.888:1 low range and the lower suffix C main box, giving a Low of 50:1. This is close to the One Ton normal control, which has a Low final drive of 56:1. The standard final drive on a series 2a is only around 38:1.

Unlike the One Ton, helical transfer box, the high range ratios remain unaltered.

[BSF]

So you have the B+E licience so what does that allow you to tow, weight wise?

Not so long ago, provided the vehicle outfit weighed under 71/2 ton you could drive it on a standard licience.

If you passed your car test before 1997 you can drive a vehicle up to 7.5 tonnes. If it is registered as an Historic vehicle, it was first used before 1962 (and you passed your test before 1997) you can drive a vehicle of any weight. However if it is over 3 tonnes it must be used "unladen" and "not towing a laden trailer". No-one knows exactly what "unladen" means including DVAL and VOSA!

[NRS91]

gettin a bit O/T here with all the licencing issues.

Brownies licenced to do the towing... and IIRC the B+E licence covers upto a 8250kg train weight these days.

His truck is powerful enough and the brakes are maintained well enough to tow 3.5ton

its just finding a rating for the max weight the 88" can tow legally and then finding the rating for coupled brakes.

im following this topic with interest as i need to rig up the air brakes on the Iveco Daily 3.5ton flatbed and sort out its artic trailers brakes.

[sean f]

I got pulled for being over weight with a trailer (this was 20years ago so regs may have changed).

The reason I was stopped initially was that I was doing about 10 - 15mph going up the A30 out of Hayle in Cornwall, only single carrageway at the time and the line of cars by the time I got to the dual carrageway section was quite impressive, about the 30th one was a police car who pulled me. I had to explain that on that hill that was all a tired LWB 2a 2 1/4 diesel would do!, he escorted me to a weigh bridge in Camborne and I came in at just over 6000kg, weigh bridge operator had a big sheet on the wall with capacities (not sure where from), this listed a LWB (110 but he didn't notice or realise the difference) and according to that I was legal, police weren't impressed and I still got a verbal warning.

The towing was frankly scary, I don't like towing at the best of time and will generally lend the vehicle to someone else to drive rather than tow myself but with that load it always felt like it was ready to go very wrong, I only did it that time to help a friend who had broken down and wouldn't do it again unless in an emergency. The Lassa 7.50 tyres didn't help matters as they where pretty useless on road even with out a load, but were cheap and OK off road, the cheap being the major fact as I was a student at the time.

[Seriesossaurus]

Hi.

I know I'm digging a (very) old thread, but it's quite inline with my doubts:

I do have a portuguese registered 1979 109 SIII, which documents don't show any tow capacity (it was previously owned by the air force, so the info could have been forgotten when it was registered as a civilian vehicle).

Beyond the chassis # plate, which refers "2 ton" (but could also be quite easily forged) where else can I find official literature stating that capacity?

I only found that on the Optional Equipment catalog, stating the standard jaw is good for 2032 kg... Is there any other literature that I can show as evidence?

Many thanks in advance!