dailysleaze Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I've had an MOT fail on the drop arm ball joint, and now a retest fail because the boot on the new ball joint hasn't stayed on. Looking at the drop arm, it doesn't have a lip like the one in the tech archive to hold the ball joint seal on securely. Is mine knackered or just a different type? Mine Tech archive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 The rusty deposits under/inside the rubber gaiter on yours mean it's knackered. There should be grease in there, not rust. --Tanuki. "Mud is not one of the 4 essential food-groups" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Thanks That photo was the "before". I've since replaced the ball joint and it's fine - it's just that the boot hasn't stayed down when the joint articulated, so has failed again. I'm particularly curious that there's no lip on my drop arm but there is in the tech archive photo. If there should be a lip, then i'll buy a new drop arm (groan). If it's supposed to be like that, then I'll plug away at trying to get the boot to stay down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSD Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 There wasn't much of a lip on the last one I did (but more than I can see in your photo). Hit it with the wire brush to make the most of what there is - it can be hard to tell the difference between crud and steel there. I think if the base flange on the boot is too thick, it just causes the spring to roll up and over. I used a wire 'tourniquet' instead of the supplied spring which stayed in place better until the rubber had deformed a bit, then the spring held it fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrfarmer Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 i've got the same problem thats why i'm putting a disco arm on mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Your original one would have had a thin press fit circular lip. This has corroded away. Replacement balljoint kits usually don't come with replacement press on lip. Even if they did, your arm is likely to be too corroded at the cup edge for a press on lip to stay on. New/replacement arms usually have a cast lip which helps keep the boot on. If you want to save yours, you need to make up a new circular lip (eg from a wire coat hanger) and tack it on with a couple of tacks from a mig welder. If you can't do this, you need a new arm, because you won't get a boot to stay on. Hope this helps, Regards, Diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrfarmer Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Your original one would have had a thin press fit circular lip. This has corroded away. Replacement balljoint kits usually don't come with replacement press on lip. Even if they did, your arm is likely to be too corroded at the cup edge for a press on lip to stay on. New/replacement arms usually have a cast lip which helps keep the boot on. If you want to save yours, you need to make up a new circular lip (eg from a wire coat hanger) and tack it on with a couple of tacks from a mig welder. If you can't do this, you need a new arm, because you won't get a boot to stay on. Hope this helps, Regards, Diff. you could use a cerclip to hold it in place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I use a thin cable tie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 x2 on the cable tie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Disco drop arm Is definitely the way forward!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Thanks for your help guys. I've come across this thread which explains what Diff was talking about very well - the press fit lip: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=28361&st=40 I know the previous owner replaced the joint about 4 years ago. God knows what happened to the lip. A lovely bodge. So new a arm it is seeing is mine fairly worn.- Cutting I think will be my method rather than trying to whack or pull it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyWinny Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Hi, I had the same issue with my old drop arm in that the lip was missing. I seem to remember the cheap Paddocks drop arm kit came with a new lip although I have heard of a few of these cheap kits failing pretty quickly. I ended up buying a new arm but when I get some time I'll try fitting a new lip and seeing how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 If you really don't want a disco drop arm and don't want to swap the entire arm or can't get a thin cable tie/wire hawse etc round it why not clean it up an stikaflex the boot on for the test.... Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastycrimper Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 What's so special about the Disco drop arm? I reckon I'll need to change my drop arm ball joint by next years MOT. I've heard a lot of mentions on here of replacing the whole arm if the drop arm is old and worn (and that the ball joint can be a right ass to get out). If I do replace the arm why would I get a Disco one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 The Disco drop arm has hole so that you can fit a normal ball joint from above that screws into the end of the drag link. The only thing is that Discos don't have a steering damper, so there are adapations to be able to bolt a bracket onto the drag link to fit a steering damper for a Defender. Personally i'd prefer to leave it standard. If i copper grease the drop arm splines and keep the ball joint boot in good nick then it shouldn't really be a problem again. More details here: http://forums.lr4x4....?showtopic=8641 and here http://forums.lr4x4....showtopic=70399 My new drop arm arrived today and the boot on the ball joint pre-installed looks cheap as chips. I may swap it with the Britpart one that I already fitted that looks better quality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Had exactly the same problem with mine. After a bit of crawling around underneath, I managed to file a very small groove on the drop arm and a cable tie lasted long enough to get it through the MOT and a couple of weeks after then it went pop again. Unless you get one with the correct lip then you'll always be fighting aginst water and rust and if you're going to the trouble of changing the arm or getting the separate lip pressed in then why not go the Disco drop arm route? I did mine and don't have to keep looking to see if the cover has popped off plus when it eventually goes, it will be very easy to change unlike the ball joint. Yes you have to get a damper bracket but there are a few available on the net so no big deal. Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 The Discovery system has a 'normal' ball joint screwed into the end of a slightly longer drag link (LHT one end, RHT the other) and a hole in the drop arm for the taper to go into. Discoverys have their steering damper on the track rod behind the axle rather than on the drag link. Kits are available to relocate the damper to the track rod or to adapt it to the drag link. HTH Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNissanPrairie Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 stainless steel lock wire is your friend; http://www.ebay.co.u...#ht_1181wt_1393 or equivalent and useful for anything else which constantly vibrate loose on Defenders.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrfarmer Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 The Disco drop arm has hole so that you can fit a normal ball joint from above that screws into the end of the drag link. The only thing is that Discos don't have a steering damper, so there are adapations to be able to bolt a bracket onto the drag link to fit a steering damper for a Defender. Personally i'd prefer to leave it standard. If i copper grease the drop arm splines and keep the ball joint boot in good nick then it shouldn't really be a problem again. More details here: http://forums.lr4x4....?showtopic=8641 and here http://forums.lr4x4....showtopic=70399 My new drop arm arrived today and the boot on the ball joint pre-installed looks cheap as chips. I may swap it with the Britpart one that I already fitted that looks better quality! i've got a grease niple on my drop arm but the ball hasn't done 2 year and has play in it, and i only do 5-7k miles a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 The Discovery system has a 'normal' ball joint screwed into the end of a slightly longer drag link (LHT one end, RHT the other) and a hole in the drop arm for the taper to go into. Discoverys have their steering damper on the track rod behind the axle rather than on the drag link. Kits are available to relocate the damper to the track rod or to adapt it to the drag link. HTH Chris 200Tdi disco has the ball joint in the lever. Also if the swivel pins are taper rollers top and bottom and you relocate the steering damper from the track rod to the drag link dont be supprised if you get wheel shimmy on the r/h wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cieranc Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 i've got a grease niple on my drop arm but the ball hasn't done 2 year and has play in it, and i only do 5-7k miles a year I replaced all the ball joints/rod ends with Britpart ones last year for test. I done 6k miles, this year, fail on ALL the rod ends and drop arm ball joint. Well, you get what you pay for...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Well it passed today after a weekend of lying in puddles angle grinding upside down for 5 hours and 2 trips to Halfords. Everything fine except that the steering wheel is oddly 45 degrees off horizontal to the left when the wheels are straight. I'm 99.99% certain I put the drop arm on the right splines, as it'd have to be 90 degrees out to fit the master splines. I don't know whether this would translate to 45 degrees at the steering wheel. All I can think is the steering wheel may have jumped a couple splines when I initially tightened the drop arm nut and realised all that was holding it was the steering lock - then put the drag link on to brace it. Or the panhard rod may have settled in a slightly different place when it was put back on. causing the axle to be in a different alignment in relation to the chassis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 This is fairly common. The replacement arm does not always have the master spline in exactly the same place as the original. You will need to adjust the length of the of the drag link in front of the axle to get it right, and/or take the steering wheel off and put it on a different spline. Regards, Diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKev Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 All I can think is the steering wheel may have jumped a couple splines when I initially tightened the drop arm nut and realised all that was holding it was the steering lock Well, the steering lock locks the steering column, not at the wheel itself... Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Well, the steering lock locks the steering column, not at the wheel itself... Kev True but there are also 4 other sets of splines between the steering lock and the steering box ...... two UJ's with splines both ends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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