Hybrid_From_Hell Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 I used to have 11mm wire on the front "Thing" winch.... Then I got into this "Purple string" stuff, (Plasma 12), and I am a convert, yet at the last Slindon winch challenge I managed to pull the rope off the drum on 2 occasions..... Plasma is normally supplied with a chunky battery terminal crimped on I've never thought this was 100% the best route, ........and on rope breakage No 1 the winch was being used to pull hard sideways,.................. I think the rope pulled across the drum and sheared the top of the retaining bolt off, ......................breakage No 2 was just the crimp not taking virtually any strain at all when we where freespoolomg and had a huge amount of rigging pulling at the last turns on the drum - was not winching and it just came out...Grrr.... Basically I have always thought this route of fixing 'a bit of a bodge', and so to this post. On my winch, and many others there is a purpose made hole right through the drum, with a grub screw mounting, on mine the plasma is 13mm, the hole 11mm...Hmmmm.. Plasma is also very flexible, and a nightmare to cut quickly and neatly....it frays, and trying to shove a soft flexible rop into a long winch drum fixing hole is...er next to impossible, esp when the cable is biger OD than the winch Hole ID So this post is how I have worked out a simple route to "Fuse Taper" your Plasma so it easily goes through the drum winch mounting hole and is fixed better.... Clamp Plasma end in vice, leave say 2 foot out... Get a tube of superglue, .........and do wear rubbers gloves for this one ! Pull up a strand to form a "Arch" about 3 inches from the end of the rope Place Superglue hard up inside the rope to "Stick" the end thats about to be cut in place, .... then hold the rope, and the end (now out) and with sharp knife cut AWAY from you which pulls the strand towards the knife and also has the effect of shortening it too, when its cut its neat the glue holds it in place, .............no strands making a real mess ... Heres the rope with a few now removed : Then with rubber gloves on squeze glue over the remaining ends and the thinner rope strands left and work with gloves quickly to make it a fused tpaered end.... And then it looks like this : This also makes it stiffer, now it just drops through the winch mounting hole, pop in a grub screw and job done, not an in the field job for sure but I think a better fitting..... Maybe one for the archives ? Hope its useful............. Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Good idea won't work on my MM though as there is only a wee bolt, no hole & grub screw Time you tidied your workshop up and threw all those old shoes out too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted September 3, 2005 Author Share Posted September 3, 2005 Steve, Just stunned frankly ..................... You missed the opportunity to comment on the "Thin and Thinner 'Repair sections' steel plate 2 of " below the vice ....and next to the shoes.................... Your slipping FFS Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Rather than superglue, what about glue-lined heatshrink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 looks ok but surely the idea is to always leave half a dozen wraps or more on the winch? (though with an 8274 overrun this can be hard to judge and I guess if yours is spooling at full pelt now you only need to blink to miss it). Sp earlier posts suggested just using duct tape to hold the tail in place but given I'd probable over run not good for me. But what's wrong with the dea of just tying the plasma on the drum, olling hitch would seem ideal. Seems so much easier but maybe I'm missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 I used a bowline with a wrap of duct tape over the top to stop it spinning round the drum. It means that, if you're lowering out and you overestimate the ammount of line on the winch, you will (at worse) be left hanging on the line and not crashing down the slope after the line has pulled out of the drum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guilford Dave Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Much safer idea Simon. With the 8274 you can exit the line through the hole in side and use a stopper knot (figure of eight) to stop the line pulling completly off. As Trev says though you need to rely on the last/first six wraps to winch from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imspanners Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 As far as I was aware you're supposed to leave a few turns on the drum (can't remember how many), but on the work winches we put red tape around the rope. Once this comes into view, stop winching out or the wire may come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted September 4, 2005 Author Share Posted September 4, 2005 Yep, You should always have an absolute minimum of 6 TIGHT rolls on the winch drum before any serious winching... What happended on both ocassiions was we were rigging up, I had the entire rope off the drum PLUS a 80 foot extension, and 2 snatch blocks, we needed all the slack we could get to rig it all... The sheer weioght of all the rope snatch blocks and jiggling was enough to pull out the eye, hence the probs. I have been in this sort of situation many times, once its rigged you'll prob get more like x10 spools + on the drum as the slack is taken up - here all the rigging was held in place by a battery terminal crimped and then a 8mm bolt to the drum... This leaves a bolt head sticking up and its never a neat spool over it.... Shoving it through the hole has been the issue, a knott on the other end is not really needed as the grub screw will hold it well in place, duct tape is an idea, but is has to have a better fix than that....I have also seen Plasma that has been quickly respooled back on the drum slide around when then used in anger, ie it might have 100 loopps on the drum, but none are tight, and then theres a risk the load fixing is the part that takes up the strain, that goes "Ping" and all the plasma rotates on the drum ! Hence why I have done this simple mod.... I will however have my spare with a battery terminal crimped on - for ease of change in the feild ! I just hope I don't really need it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guilford Dave Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Nige, I think the knot is essential A grub screw is never going to hold a LR hanging off the end of it if you miscalculate how much line you are left to run out. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 A bowline is a cracking knot to use. You can pass part of the plasma through the drum, and then finish tying the knot. This will ensure that the plasma will 'grip' the drum, and that it will stay attached no matter what. A bowline will also remain comparatively easy to undo, even if it's had a large load on the end. There's tying instructions HERE.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guilford Dave Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 The nice thing about a bowline is that it is easy to tie and to undo, it can be used to replace most other bends and hitches. Being able to tie it one handed is a major bonus and if you cant tie one dont learn it by the rabbit round the tree down the hole method. Learn to tie it by the twist method this means you can tie it one handed. Its only downfall is cannot be undone easily while under tension but besides that its the best single knot to know how to tie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Just remember that when tying knots and lashings, the amount of "spare end" is directly proportionate to the thickness of the rope. Can't remember the exact figures. Or is that just the military being over cautious. For those that are not sure the spare end is the end of the cordage that is free. Lesson over. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guilford Dave Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Bluddy ell, Brown jobs playing with knots and lines. Leave it to the Andrew mate and get a matelot to do it for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Being a RE we are supposed to have a comprehensive knowledge of knots and lashings. But as with everything else skill fade is a big thing. I've not had to do any of that real soldiering for the last 6 yrs , now I'm back in the real Army it's a bloody big culture shock I'll tell you. Having to do some work for a change is hard. As for matlows. Wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Plasma is also very flexible, and a nightmare to cut quickly and neatly....it frays, and trying to shove a soft flexible rop into a long winch drum fixing hole is...er next to impossible, esp when the cable is biger OD than the winch Hole ID tightly bind it with insulation tape then cut with new stanley blade, also makes it easier for gettin through holes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 just to add, i was talkin about plasma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy-T Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Hi All, A very interesting thread so far. As has been previously raised - the fitting to the drum is not designed to be loadbearing in any way, purely there as a locator! However due to the lower level of friction between the drum and Plasma, there is a need to increase the minimum number of wraps on the drum for the required grip load especially on new winches with painted drums.. I would suggest almost a complete bottom layer to be safe. There are two types of fitting locator for the majority of winches available within the UK. 1. The 8mm stud/bolt favoured by Warn, with the exception of the 8274. 2. The off set drilled drum favoured by Superwinch & Come Up. My view with the first is to ensure minimum number of wraps only as if you put undue strain on the stud/bolt it will shear. The second is easy as all you have to do is taper the Plasma, by removing some of the strands two at a time over the last 6" of the line, tightly wrapping it with insulating tape and pulling through the hole. Once you have enough fed through, tie a half-hitch in the line and pull it hard against the drum, cut off any surplus line beyond the knot. However I must once again stress that it is unsafe to reel out beyond the minimum wraps as the line will break at the knot! Winches are dangerous! If in doubt do not go beyond the minimum number of wraps under any circumstances - buy an extension line on find another form of recovery. Regards, Andy Thomlinson. www.ruftraks.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 The photos have vanished. Also, if you're worried about the eye pulling tie a clover-hitch knot around the drum then affix the eye, a hitch is self-tightening and should even in dyneema add a whole lot of holding power. (climber) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Had exactly this condundrum recently, I spliced the rope over about a 2 inch length then used a big washer and a bolt through the spliced hole. Job done. Well It hasn't fallen off yet anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 The photos have vanished. well it was five years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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