Gareth Dickens Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I recently decided to fit coil sprung suspension to my series 3 and was looking to transfer all the suspension mountings to my series chassis. Advice I got from others was to rather use the complete range rover chassis, lengthen it and fit the series body to it. This does not seem too hard exept for one "small" problem. I would like to use my Salisbury 4.7 front and rear axle on this build, but they are too narrow. I am running a Ford 5l V8 with toyota 5 speed gearbox and transfer case and thus 3.54 ratio axles are too tall (toyota using 4.88). I have 33" BF M/T's, so the engine and tyre combination requires fairly strong axles. I have also completed a front and rear disc brake conversion for the Salisburies, so I have invested a fair amount of time and money in them and would not want to start over. I have had an idea : There is a 180mm (+/- 7") difference between the left and right rear sideshaft....... If I were to drill out the welds on the Salisbury casing and pull out the shorter tube, I could replace it with a tube from a donor Salisbury axle that is cut to 180mm longer than the one I removed. I then use a long side shaft for left and right putting the rear axle in the center of the chassis (which aligns with the toyota gearbox output). In the front I would do something similar, am still in 2 minds as to where the diff center should be. If I leave it where it is in relation to the chassis I do not foresee any problems with propshaft but will have two different length sideshafts which makes it neccessary to have 2 sideshafts made (+ 2 spares). If I put the axle center in the center of the chassis I can have 3 sideshafts made of which one is a spare for either side. In the front I will have to remove and resize both axle tubes. Has anybody done this before? Do you have any inputs or other ideas? Thanks Gareth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Sounds like you're trying to make life very difficult for yourself. If you want a coil spring landrover just sell what you've got an buy a 110. Its not worth the agro chopping things about. Series landrovers have leaf springs, amd I frankly can see no reason for trying to change them to be anything else! However as an alternate, how about just sticking with the axles you've got, and putting the extra width in by reversing the wheel rims? My series runs standard width series axles, but with reversed 8 spokes the outsides of the rims fill a set of defender wheel arch spats nicely. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 How about using the RRC suspension links and mounts and then use a coilover shock or gasprung type spring/shocks in place of the RRC springs? There was a Company here in the UK a while back that did a rear coil conversion using the original rear leaf front mounts for the trailing arms which were custom made to suit but iirc the rear coils were in line with the chassis rails and were in a tube cup let into the chassis rail.. Modding the axles width and custom shafts could end up being a pain , altho well spec'd shafts shouldn't give any problems If you do go ahead keep us all posted with plenty of pics cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I put a 109 on a rangie chassis once. It was awful. If I was to do it again, I'd buy a 110, swap the series bits over to complete the series look and shove a v8 in the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Dickens Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Hi John, I'm allready running 10J rims that have been dished an extra 3" and the biggest problem with the RRC is that the coil spring perches will end up on top of the swivel assy. 110's are pricey in South Africa and I'm getting the complete RRC chassis with suspension and donor axles from which to transfer all brackets for close to 100 pounds. Series vehicles here are cheap and plentifull. The rear side shafts won't be custom as it will be a standard Salisbury long side shaft for both sides which means that if I travel I need to only carry one spare shaft. The fronts might be tricky. I like the coil over shock idea! I don't think wider axles on a series could hurt though..... Reckless, what specifically made it awfull? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 and shove a v8 in the front. last time you did that, you replace it with a diesel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I recently decided to fit coil sprung suspension to my series 3 and was looking to transfer all the suspension mountings to my series chassis. Has anybody done this before? Thanks Gareth Hej Gareth, that has been done before, it would be well and truly deep in this forums archives. If you can't find anything, try google. I've read several conversions that were done over the years and I can't see it being too hard to do. Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Dickens Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 I didn't see it in the tech archive...... but every piece I've read has involved changing the axles. I'm trying to retain mine. Has anyone removed the tubes from a Salisbury ? I've found someone that can cut splines for me . What would the best position for the front pumpkin be? Aligned with the rear makes driving easier? (Rutted roads could be a issue but if you learn not to straddle the bulge it should be fine) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Dickens Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Whatabout doing a 2" body lift while I'm at it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOA 93 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Hi Gareth, try googling " Dana tube swap" lots of information on the web about what you are proposing. Anything you want to know about Salibury axles my advice is to google the information but use 'Dana 60' instead of 'Salisbury'. The pumpkin position wants to be determined by your transfer box output flanges as you say, ideally you want to keep your diff and transfer flanges in line, but perhaps if your running selectable 4WD having your propshaft a bit offset won't hurt assuming you have freewheeling hubs. Regarding your front axle, late series 3 axles were 24 spline as well so may well have different length driveshaft's which may help you fine tune your ,width/centering. Another option on the front is to have spacers made to fit between the swivel ball and axle flange, you could have them threaded so they are bolted from both sides, have a spigot on them for centering and you could even have the bolts offset to dial in your castor. You are going to have to make new body mounts so you can mount them as High as you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOA 93 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Regarding you chassis swap, assuming your existing chassis is good and you are keeping all your running gear, then I think your original idea converting your chassis is less work! The RR chassis would need to be sacrificed in the process mind. I'm basing this on having recently cut all the brackets, mounts etc off a Disco chassis, the more I think about it, I would say it would alot less work to convert your 109 chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Just a thought - you could fit softer springs & better shocks. My 109 rides very nicely on parabolics & bilsteins (it was quite bumpy on procomps, and rock-hard on the old seized leafs!). ToyRoverLander on here has fitted rear springs to the front which give better articulation & a softer ride. Much less work that cutting your car up, fabricating axles, etc. Remember... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Quite agree - I wouldnt convert my series to coils. On parabolics and with some simple shock mods mine has more travel than many a coiler, plus my springs dont fall out all the time! Ride is not really any different to any of the coilers I've been in. If you really want to do this then why not just get hold of the rear salisbury axle from a 110 and use that. Its then a nuts and bolts job without lots of pissing about. You can swap the series 4.7 ring and pinion into it and its an easy job. The front axle then is your only real problem......... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Dickens Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 I'm not much of a cat person, and like I said series vehicles in SA are a dime a dozen. Using a 110 axle only solves the problem at the back. Parabolics do not fix axle wrap or tramp or bump steer and since searching for Dana 60 axle extension I found a good way to do it. Drilling the welds in the center is a PITA job but it seems cutting a tube, pressing in a sleeve and rewelding is a easier solution. If I do it right I'll still be able to use original Salisbury long sideshafts for the rear on left and right hand side. I have a slightly worn Salisbury long front sideshaft and an ENV long front side shaft. (which is thicker and longer than the Salisbury's.) I can extend the short side axle tube and have Sideshafts shortened and new splines cut which solves the problem in the front. So in the end it looks like I'l be extending the short sides of both the front and rear axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Parabolics do not fix axle wrap or tramp or bump steer. An anti wrap bar will take care of the spring wrap. Bumsteer is an issue when the suspension is lifted a lot. There's not many options out there to lift a series so unless you've gone spring over axle you shouldn't have much bumpsteer. You sure you're not confusing bumpsteer with steering kick back caused by a massive scrub radius dus to very wide, lots'o offset rims on a narrow axle? Only fitting a wider axle without ridiculous wheelspacers and or huge offset rims will fix this. Parabolics, especially when having the rears up front, in combination with GOOD quality shocks ( I use Bilstein 5125) rides VERY well! Very comfy and LOTS of articulation. Way more than any coiler. I've now got 63" chevy pickup springs at the back which are really incredibly soft! It should ride like a magic carpet now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 "Parabolics do not fix axle wrap or tramp or bump steer" I thought it was possible to run a panard rod with leaf springs for bump steer? I'm pretty sure I didn't make that up? Axel wrap bars I have definately seen. If it wasn't UK insurance rules, I'd go rangy radious arms and coilvers on the 109 chassis, where the existing shockers are. Or maybe even new top shock mounts for more travel. Because those big old rangy springs are starting to look very oldy-worldy compaired to fox gas struts In the UK guys weld the rangy mounts onto the outside of anything (yota/zuke). Only real hard bit is castor angle. Somtimes the radious-arm anchor-points go under the chassis if width is an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Leafs & panhard have been done by a guy who used to race I'm told. I still find it hard to believe that all this hassle couldn't be averted by altering the choice of parts - either fitting better leaf springs, or swapping to some more easily sourced axles from something japanese rather than having to whittle axle shafts out, hack housings up, etc. etc., it just seems like a massive effort to achieve something quite basic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Reckless, what specifically made it awfull? Nothing that would be affected by what you want to do with yours. I tried to modify the bodywork to fit around the rangie chassis. It looked like a complete shed. It drove just like a rangie though, which made it quite boring! last time you did that, you replace it with a diesel... Maybe I should qualify my previous statement with "and if I was in SA where petrol is not £eek!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Dickens Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 You must consider my location on the blue and green ball. The rangie chassis (of which the price has now come down to +/- 75 pounds) is a lot cheaper than having a set of leafs made down here and a enormous amount cheaper than buying a set of parabolics from the UK and having them shipped to South Africa. Don't forget the goverments share of import duties!!! I've found an engineering shop that will lengthen my axles at about 50 pounds each and cut me splines for about 30 lbs per shaft. The axles will now be 7" longer (3.5" per side) and I'll fit jeep fender flares later. It should look very badass and have better road handling and be less likely to roll over. Don't forget the distances we travel here either. Last week we did 1000 miles to my childhood home town and then a 1000 miles back @ a cruising speed of "around" 75 mph. I think coils are much better suited for this. Nothing that would be affected by what you want to do with yours. I tried to modify the bodywork to fit around the rangie chassis. It looked like a complete shed. It drove just like a rangie though, which made it quite boring! Maybe I should qualify my previous statement with "and if I was in SA where petrol is not £eek!" The rangie chassis is very similar to the series chassis so the body should sit on top nicely. I'm still sitting on the fence though and could go either way. How much is your fuel there - We're pushing R12 (12 rand) a liter which is almost 1pound- (12.93 ZAR = 1 pound) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Leafs & panhard have been done by a guy who used to race I'm told. That's to cancel out ANY sideway movement of the axle, leasfsprings are lengths of spring steel with a curve in them, so they can move a bit left and right. I can imagine in a race car you want as rigid/solid a suspension as you possibly can. It would be a very bad idea on a 4x4 as the panhard will try to push the axle sideways, fighting the springs. It's like a panhard on a double triangulated 4link... terrible idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 ..... How much is your fuel there - We're pushing R12 (12 rand) a liter which is almost 1pound- (12.93 ZAR = 1 pound) Petrol is about 1.40 per litre and diesel about 1.46-1.50 per litre but in fairness by comparison we're on a pretty small chunk of land so I imagine you burn a lot more of the stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Dickens Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 I've come to my senses...... If I want this vehicle to run within the next 50 years my only real option is to fit the longer leafs to the front and complete the project. Putting a Series body on a Rangie chassis is easy enough, if you use the Rangie's axles but doing what I want to do is an insane amount if work. It would be unique, but that itself is not always a good idea out in the bundu's. Thanks for the advice. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 no worries, bouncing ideas of other people often finds the best route, even if its not the one you orginally thought of/wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_s Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 i'm a little suprised that no one has mentioned that if you move the pumpkin on the front axle to the middle, it may interfere with the sump on the engine? as you've changed the engine this may not matter. but then it now looks like you arent doing that anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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