PieEater3142 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I have just found out that the gears are slipping on the worm drive (they were fine till I put the wiper arms on). Anyway I thought I had tightened these up when I put them in (time to take the dash off - doh!) but they are 200tdi ones. The question is, do I need to replace the entire wheel box or can I just get new gears for them? If I do need to replace them, can I put td5 ones in instead (stupidity has meant that I have both td5 and tdi wiper arms)? And if so what are the part numbers for complete ones? Cheers, James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieEater3142 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 OK, just seen this thread: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=57813 - sorry guys Will try bending the metal in a bit but just in case, can I put td5 ones in if necessary and part numbers please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 you can just change the boxes its a dash out job though (or almost out anyway) takes longer than you think it will. MPN - sorry don't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 these are Td5 type wheelboxes http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/4801/DKU000010-WIPER-MOTOR-WHEEL-BOX.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieEater3142 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 thanks western. Will try and fix mine, if not will be getting a set of these... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 There are two different faults that occur. One is the teeth actually being stripped from the gears - but this only really happens on TD5 as it has plastic gears. The other is the gear housings or more accurately the little tab on the back that pushes the gear towards the cable, stops applying enough pressure. Initially the gear will just slip - though it will soon suffer damage. The TD5 ones will not fit in an earlier bulkhead without enlarging the holes through the dash. Even if you do this, you would be replacing a fairly strong reliable part with a weak, unreliable one. Knowing what a pain it is to get the damn things out - I would replace the wheel boxes just in case the gears are damaged. You will swear very loudly if they fail again - believe me! I have just replaced the wheel boxes on my TD5 with earlier 300 Tdi ones as I've replaced the TD5 ones three times and decided I didn't want to do it again. I used all genuine parts (wheel boxes and arms) which came to about £60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 If I recall correctly Si your Td5 is a 2003 model, with the later dash et. al.? Does this mean you have had to modify the cable arrangement to suit the pre-2002 wheel boxes as I'm sure I've come across mounting difficulties when doing it the other way around, mainly with regard to the cable being on the wrong side and therefore the wipers wiping the wrong way? I'm sure the sweep angle is different as well, though swapping the gear in the wiper motor to match would sort that I'm sure. Interesting that the gears in the later boxes are plastic, wasn't aware of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 You're kind of right. The cable and cable tubes are compatible. The wheel boxes are the same way up so the wipers work the same. The only mod you have to do is make a washer to make up the size difference between the earlier shaft and the bigger hole in the late bulkhead. You can make washers out of the tubes on the wheel boxes you are replacing. The sweep angle is different - which makes the drivers side wiper over shoot the edge of the screen a bit, but if as you suggest, you swap the gear in the motor with an earlier one - the original sweep angle is restored. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Interesting. Thanks for clarifying Simon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I have fitted later gear boxes to an earlier bulkhead and it is not as straightforward as it seems. I am sure there is a post on here somewhere but essentially you need to drill out the bulkhead for the thicker shaft (it only just fits) and will need to modify the central dash support where the tube passes as it will sit a bit higher and won't go past otherwise. I will have a look for my post Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=73302&hl=&fromsearch=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 If you do this mod you will need to change the gear in the motor (simple enough) and will have to reverse the position of the park switch ramp by 180 degrees as they appear to come from the factory set up for the LHD market! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieEater3142 Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Wow, all seems quite complicated. I have a td5 bulkhead though.... should I be packing out the holes then? (time for some sikaflex?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I would fit the earlier type of wipers - as they tend to be more reliable than the later ones with plastic gears. If you look carefully at the photo, you can see it has two nuts. The bigger one is the end of the tube from the Td5 wheel boxes which is a neat fit in the bulkhead and you can use the original seals. The bore of the tube is exactly the right size for the 300Tdi style wheel box shaft to pass through - then secured with it's nut. It went together surprisingly easily - only tool required was a Hack Saw to cut off the tubes. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieEater3142 Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Thanks Si, much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieEater3142 Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 Ok so after much swearing, i have fitted and removed the passenger wheel box. I removed most of the play to the point where it only slipped when it went to fully upright. But this is with the tab fully pressed in and my bending in the top of the wheel box to get the worm drive close to the gear. I'm guessing from this requirement that the gets are knackered. I don't have anything to compare it with but I'm at the point of ordering new wheel boxes. Question is, are bearmach safe to use our should i just go lr. It's 40 more though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 The question you have to ask yourself is, is the hassle of dismantling it all again worth £40 to me? If the answer is no, Bearmach, Britpart etc will be an excellent choice! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomaco1 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 There are two different faults that occur. One is the teeth actually being stripped from the gears - but this only really happens on TD5 as it has plastic gears. The other is the gear housings or more accurately the little tab on the back that pushes the gear towards the cable, stops applying enough pressure. Initially the gear will just slip - though it will soon suffer damage. The TD5 ones will not fit in an earlier bulkhead without enlarging the holes through the dash. Even if you do this, you would be replacing a fairly strong reliable part with a weak, unreliable one. Knowing what a pain it is to get the damn things out - I would replace the wheel boxes just in case the gears are damaged. You will swear very loudly if they fail again - believe me! I have just replaced the wheel boxes on my TD5 with earlier 300 Tdi ones as I've replaced the TD5 ones three times and decided I didn't want to do it again. I used all genuine parts (wheel boxes and arms) which came to about £60. Just a bit of an update, I just got some TD5 wiper wheel boxes and they have metal gears. Now I'm wondering when they changed because I put a set in my 110 about 1 1/2 years ago. They did come in a land rover box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I replaced my gear boxes on my 109 with Britpart units during my rebuild. I later had problems with both wipers - they sweep too small an area with a dry screen, but overshoot (especially the rhs) on a wet screen, especially at speeds over 40mph where the wind forces their movement even further. I replaced both boxes again with new Gen Parts. I became a Britpart critic not long after the big rebuild, but in all fairness, there was no difference in the quality of their wiper boxes - I found no faults in the units I replaced, no difference in the appearance or quality to the new genuine boxes, and no difference in the sweeping problems or the conditions in which the problems occur. However, I still wouldn't recommend Britpart; I just have too little faith in their quality even though these parts were fine (I kept them as spares). Bearmach seem to be better as far as pattern parts go. Frankly, I expect that LR, BP and BM all use the same manufacturer. I suspect my problem is due to the operating cable. I replaced that before the rebuild because of under-sweep with a Britpart cable, but it turned out to be 3-4" too long. I had to cut the end off with a hack saw. and having removed the retaining tip that secures the coil to the inner wire, I suspect the coil is compression and stretching like a spring. I think replacing the boxes and lubricating the entire system allowed the wipers to move more easily, which is why the oversweep only became apparent then, not on initial cable replacement. I need to replace the cable again or weld up its tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Part of the overshoot is possibly slop caused by wear on the teeth of the main gearwheel in the motor. A new one has next to no backlash. The motor can stop smartly but the cable can still move significantly if you have any wear here. I didn't realise how much it had worn till I got a new motor - despite changing wheelboxes and cable my wipers were still very floppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I don't seem to have much wear on the teeth, but the main gear wheel has a lot of end float, which probably allows a considerable wiper movement with the helical teeth. I think I need to put a washer on the spindle to get rid of that end float and check the worm gear again for end float too (I didn't see any last time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 There is supposed to be a wavy washer under the gearwheel - see http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/product_display.asp?mscssid=WABVQLQQ4KCV8NG9JTBUEJMEF6B7B7F2&ProductID=RTR8288. This is is the only place I have foundd that sells them separately This site http://www.esussexautoelectricspares.co.uk/ourshop/cat_282934-WIPER-PARTS.html also seems to sell a lot of wiper bits (as do Stafford Vehicle Parts) http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/category/wiper-systems-and-parts/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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