Comp safari car

[dorky]

Afternoon, I have just aquired a complate rooling discovery chassis which I wish to convert for comp safari racing in Devon. Has anybody got pictures/notes on how to shorten the chassis to 88 Inch or do I leave it at 100 inch. and how about the rear does it get the chop if so where?

any help greatly appreciated.

cheers

[stuck]

Wheel base is a matter of preference really.

For Comp Safari I'd pick 100" as stability is more important than maneuverability but others will prefer 88".

If you want to shorten it cut the chassis between the radius and trailing arms.

As for the arse end cut it about 6" behind the spring turret & make your own rear cross member.

Bear in mind that you will need to check that which ever cage you choose will mount properly if you cut in the places I've said.

HTH's,

Mick.

[jai_landrover]

It also greatly depends on what you wish to compete in and what body you wish to use. Most people use Defender/series body panels as its easy and cheap.

What comp safari do you want to do?

Do you want to do trialing?

Do you wish to do all the events or only play with a few clubs?

If you build an 88 inch to ALRC Spec you can trial, race almost 99% of all the events, but its short.

If you build a 100 inch and use a def/series body you are instantly ruled out of ALRC events,

you can build an 100 inch but must keep to the rules and run a disco or RRC shaped vehicle.

Depends on your really

My preference would be 88 inch for all round fun to ALRC Spec, Or for full out racing I'd build a 109 truck cab build it 108 you have an inch leaway with wheelbase again built to ALRC regs with the long overhang but make the panels out of ali and hang them on a lightweight steel angle frame. No good for anthing but comp safari tho really.

[chrisbowler]

If you stretch the chassis to 107/ 109/ 110 you can still be ALRC or compete in AWDC etc, use defender/ series sillouette - thats what I did with my 107"

you can then add traction aids, winches etc!!!

Chris Bowler

[dorky]

cheers for the info, looks like ALRC 88" it is then. Mainly going to be with Cornwall and devon club events as I live in devon. going to be on a budget as I have just completed my V8 90 nut and bolt ,chassis up rebuild. So defender/Series body with a few extras from QT services (roll cage) hope to have it up and running later this year.

cheers again for your help

[chrisbowler]

I think you will regret going 88 - I am not just saying that because I have a 107 - the extra long wheelbase does make the car handle MUCH better for speed andf if ALRC is your main events base then go long - you can alway chop it back.

If you go 88 now there is no stretch potential and whilst it is a comp car, its only advantage is that it could be a half decent trial vehicle aswell.

Speak to QT as they can build you a long wheel base frame that will not be affected if you decide to shorten it in the future

Alternatively speak with Malc Whitbread - he built mine and has a wealth of experience with 88 and longer base vehicles.

Chris Bowler

[Steve Hiatt]

I agree with Chris.

[jai_landrover]

If you find a dead lse chassis then build onto that it would be ok. Personally unless you have serious bucks its unrealistic to think you will get in the top 5 at any serious event. I do like my trials so I will be competing in an old 80 inch leaf sprung ( I can hear Steve hiatt & Chris bowler laughing from here) (My brother used to race AWDC in a 100 inch comper and he is still laughing) I was advised that if I spend on running gear ashcroft everything all you need to worry about is keeping your wheels on the deck and going the right way, erm with an 80 inch it will be laughable! I want to be competitive in CCV trials Team Rec and play comp (short rougher local events) If I were to build another It would be an 88 inch class for the above reason.

Reliability may see you in the top 10 as there are plenty of sheds thats costs ££££ out there that will fall apart or break well before they reach the finish line. I see it as if you spend your money wisley and have a solid motor that you can rely on finishing then you will always be somwhere.

Things been drummed into me since I was a wee one:

The driver always wants a bigger cam than the engine,

Just because an engine came from a winning TVR doesn't mean it'll work at for your comp motor bouncing over rough terrain,

if you run a reversed front end at the rear make sure the panhard rod is mounted on the correct side otherise you will be like a guy that did it years ago at an awdc comp when ever he landed he was all over the place!

[chrisbowler]

Nothing wrong with an 80 leaf sprung!!! I still have mine that i used to do CCV with - My main point is that if Dorky is at the beginning of building a Comp Car he needs to be aware of all sides of the coin!!! I started off comping an 88" with V8 and whilst it was OK and got me into the sport and we did CCV with it aswell as Comp , I soon saw the advantages of the longer wheel base. I now run the TD5 107, not because I wanted to get into the top 5, but because I wanted to have fun in a truck that is a bit different and when going fast is a real dream to drive - espicially on loose gravel and tight hairpin bends.

Which ever way you go - lets see some pics and hope the car will be ready soon -

PS Go Diesel!!!!

Chris Bowler

[daveturnbull]

Most comp safari's are run under MSA rules, not ALRC so wheelbase is not an issue. I know SCOR and EDORC are MSA, not sure about C&DLRC as they are both MSA and ALRC affiliated.

From a racing point of view, 100" is far more sociable than 88". And it's less work too if you're starting with a discovery chassis. Get yourself a copy of the MSA blue book for some good pictures / diagrams of how the roll cage should be designed. And use red band tube if you can.

If you want to be competitive in your class, don't go diesel, as you'll almost certainly be using a turbo charger which adds a (rather large imho) multiplier to your engine cc to determine you class. So a 200tdi falls into the same class as a 4.6 v8....

[jai_landrover]

My point about wheelbase and alrc rega is If you build to alrc regs you can play with pretty much all clubs rarther than be limited to non alrc clubs. Agree it's more work 6 mm etc but cutting down rewelding a chassis and shortening a props shaft is no work at all in the grand scheme of thIngs. Agree it's not as good at jumping and maybe not considered as good for full on comp but the options are open.

Building a good sorted car will take a fair amount of time.

[dorky]

got to get my head around all of the facts here, have just received MSA blue book and race licence so will go over all rules.

going to speak with QT services as well in the morning now all the bank holiday stuff is over.

cheers

[Henry Webster]

Alternatively leave the body on and use a Discovery. Lose a bit of weight and with a little bit of driving attitude beating 88"s is easy!

[Ed Barnes]

in my view i would build something to alrc spec, firstly because you can enter an event with any club then and secondly the cost of the event. as for the car, personally i would go for an 88 or even 93. if you want to win trophies on a budget keep it a 100inch and go for class wins. but most importantly what ever you decide on make sure it is reliable, i'm sure you have heard the old saying "if you want to finish first, first you have to finish" you could be leading and something silly could go wrong. i did my first comp on monday in my 88", we were in about 8th in class after 2 runs and on the 4th the a bearing went in the engine (i think the engine was quite worn anyway) but still it is quite annoying but thats racing i suppose.

but good luck!

[jai_landrover]

I'm with Ed.

92 inch if you must you can run a v8 upto 4.0 I think and be in a std class with (alrc) cost of the event is a huge difference. What is it now 50 quid to play comp Ed? What's the average awdc 120 or more?

I was always brought up hating the seemingly anal alrc regs but they are there to keep the sport at a clubman level and cheap ish compared to other sports it's good value for money. Other clubs if you haven't got a workshop sponsoring your car all spares + labour and 100k worth of motor your just gonna be another D N F or right down the rankings. Having fun no doubt but expensive fun. IMO

Ed are out going to Roundhill a week Saturday? Punch event burnham offroaders and trials drie round etc? I think a few of us will go up there in the road motors for a jolly.

[Ed Barnes]

the National comp is £35 but i think most are around the £50 and the awdc events are £115 a time, unless i can find a sponsor to pay entry fee's to events i wont be doing many awdc events.

and i cant be there i'm afraid. i will be on holiday.

[Henry Webster]

in my view i would build something to alrc spec, firstly because you can enter an event with any club then and secondly the cost of the event.

I think this used to be the case, but as there are so few ALRC clubs running comp safaris these days, I am not sure its such a necessary compromise these days.

Its true the ALRC comps are cheap, but many of them are inter-club events and allow all sorts of cars. The key is to work out the sort of events you want to compete on and which clubs/championship you want to compete with and build appropriately.

One benefit of building a standard or modified/super production car is that you can compete virtually anywhere, always be competitive in class and on some events be competitive overall. Its easier to take overseas too, as European/FIA regs are less stringent with production cars.

...but then I am biased!

[lrfarmer]

It also greatly depends on what you wish to compete in and what body you wish to use. Most people use Defender/series body panels as its easy and cheap.

What comp safari do you want to do?

Do you want to do trialing?

Do you wish to do all the events or only play with a few clubs?

If you build an 88 inch to ALRC Spec you can trial, race almost 99% of all the events, but its short.

If you build a 100 inch and use a def/series body you are instantly ruled out of ALRC events,

you can build an 100 inch but must keep to the rules and run a disco or RRC shaped vehicle.

Depends on your really

My preference would be 88 inch for all round fun to ALRC Spec, Or for full out racing I'd build a 109 truck cab build it 108 you have an inch leaway with wheelbase again built to ALRC regs with the long overhang but make the panels out of ali and hang them on a lightweight steel angle frame. No good for anthing but comp safari tho really.

for comps i don't think it matters if you go 100 or 88 but if you go 88 you can have a play at the CCVs as well (most ccvs at C&D are set up with 80" so 88" is a bit long but you can have a bit of fun)

you could also talk to terry shepherd or matt braire for help with bulding up to ALRC rules

[dorky]

Sounds like I have opened a can of worms here, just about to take the plasma cutter to the chassis in the morning to go 88" and now haveing second thoughts. think I will get in touch with Terry Shepard to go over ALRC regs.

cheers

[chrisbowler]

107" !!!!!

Set up a poll and see the general vote - we can then decide what extras you need, the colour and then what events you will be doing!!!

Chris Bowler

[Steve Hiatt]

For a given set of parts a longer wheelbase will be better fro racing. Better handling and less stress on the propshafts.

I would also give consideration to running a full bodied Disco as Henry said. I know you have a rolling chassis but you could buy an early V8 one for next to nothing, fit a cage and you're nearly ready to go. Less money and less work than building a traditional ALRC motor.

[dorky]

sorry chaps had to go 88" to compete in C and D Club ALRC, chassis cut and shut all body fittings and outriggers arae off as well as rear end waiting for new cross member. Now thinking of making it mid enigine V8 to help balance of car(centre of gravity ) and all that!. anybody done it ?

cheers

[daveturnbull]

On 100", yes. Not seen a 88" rear engined. The front prop would need to be reeeeeally short.

[lrfarmer]

well when your finnish i may see you down at C&D

[Ed Barnes]

I do know that a mid engined 88 has been done but that's not aloud with alrc. just try and get your engine as far back as you can