simonr Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 In the past, i've made a couple of gas-strut based door stays - but they are not really what is required because, particularly with a spare wheel mounted on the door they have no hope of holding the door open on a slope. If the strut is strong enough for that - you have to use the winch to close it on the flat! I was playing with the reel my compressed air hose lives on which is self retracting with a sort of ratchet thing. You pull the hose out as far as you need. Once per revolution the reel makes a clicking noise and so long as you stop pulling while it's clicking, it holds the position. Pull the hose a bit more and release and it fully retracts. The mechanism is very simple - and it occurs to me that this would make a good door stay. Open the door as far as you need - then it will hold. Open a bit more and it releases the catch and allows you to close it. More than that, if you want to hold the door open a little (when the vehicle is pointing up a slope for example), you open the door, then close it until it clicks and it will hold. What do you think? Is it worth making? Does the idea make sense? My 110 has a drop down tailgate - so I don't actually need one, but nor do I have one to measure & play with. Could one of you with a back door measure me the open and closed length of such a stay? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I think it's a great idea si, but you might want to add a sort of release mechanism to the handle, so that when you lift it up, the door can move any which way. Or you could just ditch the whole reel setup, and make it so that as soon as you let go of the handle, this is where it stops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 A great Idea Simon, You are welcome to take measurements off mine at the weekend, not sure if the door length changed with the later door so it may be worth checking? Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Twig Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Not a bad idea! I can't quite imagine where you would mount it though? anyhoo, either way, if it worked I'd definitely buy one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Take a look at Seitz Caravan/camper windows as they work on this principle. Would be a good thing to have and would willingly provide a rear door for you to trial it on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Sounds a bit like a P38 bonnet strut. They have a lockout in them. Obviously this gives just one fixed position, so you couldn't keep the door held open 'just a bit'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C18RCH Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Not to put a downer on it, I think it's a good idea in principal but what about if you open it to the max and then cannot open it anymore to make it retract? Also maybe it's just me but a clicking door would drive me insane. When I'm shooting for example trying to open a dorr quietly is hard enough without it clicking too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 C18, I think you may have misunderstood how it works. If you get a chance, have a play with a self retracting hose, cable or air hose reel. It's impossible to get it into a situation where it's stuck at full extension. If you want a door that Is silent when you open it, this is not for you. But then arguably, nor is a Land Rover. I don't see the clicking being deafening - but it has to be loud enough that you can tell the points where the door will hold position. I'll,post up some cad drawings once they are finished. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Si if you need a door to play with I've got one you can have it's rusty but aren't they all. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Thanks Mike - but what I need most at the moment is a measure of the open and closed lengths from the mount on the side of the seat box to somewhere suitable to mount on the door. When next I see Steve200tdi I'll measure his then draw the drawings! The design I have is intended to be folded out of stainless and is really very simple - which translates into cheap! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The idea's good. I'd be interested. The mechanism in a hose reel only works in one direction though, I'm not sure how this would work in both directions, the load of the door could be trying pull it open or push it shut depending on slope, wind etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbloke Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Have you seen a triumph herald boot stay? That is is the lift and lock, lift and release type of thing, should work great on a rear door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Pat_Pending - you have a good point. The mechanism I envisage would work in both directions so if you are opening the door and stop while it's clicking it will stop the door closing at that point. If you are closing the door and stop while it's clicking, it will stop the door opening beyond that point. There will be a clear (non clickey) section at either end of the travel so it will never lock fully open or closed and where the direction of the ratchet can reverse. Fatbloke - I'm thinking something very similar but reversible so it will lock in either direction. A boot lid always has gravity trying to close it whereas the rear door is affected by the lean of the vehicle (and the Land Rovers own gravitational field ) Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 This is a quick sketch of how it works: As shown, the door is being opened and the Pawl (Red) is ratcheting against the blue bit which is bolted to the door. The green bit is bolted to the body. When the door is fully opened, the pawl runs off the end of the ratchet and is sprung to it's centre position. When the door is then closed, it ratchets the other way until it runs off the other end of the ratchet - and the process repeats. The Pawl is centred by a leaf spring sitting behind the flared end of the pawl which is deflected as the pawl moves off centre. It's not quite there as a product design - but it demonstrates the principle. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_NZ Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 The only problem I can see with the ratchet system is if you have a trailer hitched up and part of trailer prevents the door opening fully, (a trailer brake or jockey wheel mechinisim for example). So some sort of override would be needed. Hope that made sense.... Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Twig Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I like the concept very muchly. Agree with Tim's point about towing, even with adjustable height slider plates etc I had to tow stuff were you can only open the back door about half way. Could you have some sort of overide cable/button that then pulled, pulls the pawl so it sits perpendicular to the ratchet to allow it to slide freely. Kind of like a hand brake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UdderlyOffroad Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Si, Am afraid I can't help you with the measurements as my truck's in bits at the moment. But I like the idea, definitely superior to a gas strut...my X-eng shopping list has grown, again! (X-trouser, pedal lock and now this!) Further to over-ride, what about over-load? The PO of my truck managed to punch a hole in the tub, I'm guessing through trying to slam it closed whilst the stay was in the 'locked open' position D'oh! by udderlyoffroad, on Flickr Do you reckon the leaf spring holding the pawl would yield in the case of severe overloading? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 One thing to question is how often do you want to hold the door partially open? My father's Shogun has a similar system but simpler where it will only lock in the fully open position. That way you only need a bar and with a channel and notch cut it in to hold it open (if that makes sense). Essentially it's a similar design to the normal weak door stay on the back of many Defenders except that rather than have a spring-loaded catch it simply has a notch that means it locks into place. You then need to push the door back slightly and pull the bar out to unlock it and the door will shut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 That's a good idea. The way the pawl/spring works, it could just be rotated 90 degrees to disengage and the spring would hold it in the disengaged position too. Something a bit like this! I think, looking at the picture, it might be better if it were supplied with a new bracket that is bolted through the wheel box plus one to bolt through the door with the end poking through that slot. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Ed, you could achieve the same thing by only having a couple of teeth on the ratchet at the far end of its travel - easily achieved with a hack-saw! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 What about a decent bonnet stay opening system ? Always wanted one never gotten around to it ... Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Surely gas struts would be fine for a bonnet stay, been done on here quite a few times IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Kit would be god ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozsug Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=75365 or great supplier of all gas struts etc in all forces and sizes http://www.sgs-engineering.com/gas-struts/range/nitride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Si, I've e-mailed you some pictures of the rear door stay on my 90, some of which will give you rough dimensions. If anyone else on here wants to see them, please say, but I don't have time to wrestle with the forum gallery software right now. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.