ejparrott Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Been passed this via another forum: http://www.the-ace.org.uk/armageddon/#more-901 It appears the EU is attempting to pass laws that make a lot of old Landrovers, and maybe some new, technically unroadworthy. According to the EU documents linked from that link, any vechicle with any 'modifications' which invalidates its Type Approval Certificate will be unroadworthy. Historic Vehicles are exempt, but the definition of Historic will change to any vehicle which fulfils all the following conditions : •It was manufactured at least 30 years ago, •It is maintained by use of replacement parts which reproduce the historic components of the vehicle; •It has not sustained any change in the technical characteristics of its main components such as engine, brakes, steering or suspension and •It has not been changed in its appearance. (Robbed from SVL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Welcome to the club, it already is that way in most of Europe... and it sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Was going to say, Germany has been like this for many many many years.... TUV anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 •It has not sustained any change in the technical characteristics of its main components such as engine, brakes, steering or suspension and •It has not been changed in its appearance. That rules out just about everything! Maybe time to start looking for a new job! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Write to your MP? Must be an election coming up soon. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UdderlyOffroad Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Write to your MEP? Have you seen some of the other proposals in the linked document? The Commission proposes to bring all trailers capable of more than 40kph into scope of periodic testing. This includes all currently exempt trailers below 3,500 kgs (including caravans). MOT for trailers??? That'll be popular. The Commission proposes that the drivers of a vehicle registered in a Member State shall keep on board the roadworthiness certificate corresponding to the latest roadworthiness test and the report of the last roadside inspection (if applicable). Keep your MOT cert on board? Totally un-necessary in these computerised times, but ok, no great problem. The Commission proposes that when major or dangerous deficiencies have been found following a more detailed roadside inspection, Member States may require the payment of a fee. ??? A fine? Already the case Actually, most of the proposals are already covered by the MOT system already - but the real doozie is this one: The Commission proposes to introduce a definition for a roadworthiness test that components of the vehicle must comply with characteristics at the time of first registration. This may prevent most modifications to vehicles without further approval of the vehicle. (this will apply to many components and to all types of vehicle) Well, the points system arguably already covers this. But what I don't understand is why? What problem is this proposal solving? It's enough to make one want to write a Daily-Mail-Style anti-EU rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 First. It justifies a high number of jobs in Brussels. That's important. Second. It will drive a lot of modified cars off the road, meaning that those driving boring cars won't feel envy. That's important. Third. The major motor manufacturers have told the Bureaucrats over lunch that it will save lives and jobs. That's important. Finally. As for the rights you and your ancestors fought for, well, that's old history, so who cares. Anyway, I'm getting back to fitting my oil cooler. Feck them all, I'm voting for whatever party promises to give the EU a big kick in the balls, in the next election. Rant over. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 just found this via facebook. REDICULOUS, as you all know, my land rover is quite heavily modified, i.e. engine and drivetrain, suspension, and visuals. so this will really affect me. how does it get on with regards to the need for a modified vehicle for work? i.e. air coupled brakes for towing, beacons for roadside work, it means i will have to take my rear worklights etc off, which i use a lot for loading/unloading trailers in the dark etc. will put a fair amount of poeple out of jobs! looks like ill be digging out a 2.25 petrol to replace the TDI again if this actually comes through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Yes its scary, especially when i think about all the time i have spent on my landy to do the modifications i did, just to outlaw it.................. If that happens i think i would emigrate to somewhere............or export it to somewhere where another owner can enjoy a modified series 3! G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I've written to my MP to say its something that Central Government should be interested in - and they should be telling the MEP's to object. I've written to my MEP previously but did not receive a reply. I have also written to my MP who wrote a courteous reply - and (possibly by chance rather than his direct action) what I wrote about has been remedied. I hope my MP might have more sway over the MEP than me directly?! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrRob Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Is there not some sort of e-petition to No.10 that can be set up like other campaigns??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Is this going to apply to vehicles that were modified at first reg (q plate) and subject to sva test at first reg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Is this going to apply to vehicles that were modified at first reg (q plate) and subject to sva test at first reg? Shouldn't affect SVA'd vehicles as they don't have type approval, the type approval is done so that every car doesn't need an SVA. When a particular type of car is to be produced in numbers over a certain volume the manufacturer will submit the car for type approval (which is stricter than an SVA). So I guess you can say that any modifications that were made before an SVA are in fact approved due to the SVA and Type Approval being the same thing (just for different volumes of production). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 At least you guys have a doable SVA system, so far from all is lost. We don't even have that, so the national pastime come MOT day is swapping in all original bits (admittedly hard with an engine...) like suspension and tyres etc, and them swapping the modified bits back on after the MOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Well either I've read it wrong or..... It is not legislation it is a proposal for us to comment on with view to legislation later. I'm all for trailers being tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Is there not some sort of e-petition to No.10 that can be set up like other campaigns??? Remember that e-petitions are a contrivance set up to allow the great unwashed (you and me) to vent steam. Nothing will happen as a result of an e-petition. What we need is some sort of massed civil disobedience. So (say) what we need is for everyone to come together ie car owners, bikers, commercial vehicle owners etc etc, basically everyone who may be effected by the new legislation and conduct a protest. How about if we went to every MP, MEP, politician, Lord and senior civil servant's house early every Sunday morning and blocked them in for the day? That would make the buggers take notice..... We just need someone with the ability to organise, along the lines of the oil refinery blockades a decade ago.... Julian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 If you stand back and look at this it has truly horrific consequnces ! As a nation we are great fiddlers of things automobile, and have been for yonks, as such there is a vast infrastructure built on this area. Take LR as just an explae. Think of all the "Big names" Devon, Simmonites, Ashcroft transmissions, Whitbread as just some off the top of my head. How many could survive if the off road / modifying of LRs was stopped, if they could survive what impact on there businesses / staff levels etc, for small co's such as myself, 100% gone, and everything in between also like X-eng and other would cease ! Thats just Businesses, then there are the jobs IN those busineses, and thats not all, there are a raft of compnaies that do the product manufactuer for these products, all mine is UK, many other business equally ue UK, so then manufactuering (in trouble aledy) gets another whack, and then some of those would close, or scale down massively = jobs gone. Play day sites, which are often farmers gaining some extra revenue etc might see the off road worl diminish to almost nothing = revenue loss, and then the independant dealers say Challenger near me, how much of their work and sale would vanish ? and then more jobs. Thats JUST LRs There is a huge motorsport / vehicle network inthe UK Old sodbury and autojumbles, if peeps give up hobbies then they go. Motorbikes, and othjer marquee clubs and enthusiasts off road motobikes, resotation compnaies, specialist compnaies that make after market upgrades and accessories, and the more you think about it the more catastrophic it could be.... But, the EU has been such great value to us when you think about it, er, actually I struggle to see anything the EU has done that has benifited UK PLC Fingers crossed Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozsug Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Maybee someone who is good at writing letters ( and can spell!)could post a draft up here that we could all copy and print and send to our own MP's,MEP's etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Dslexai rules KO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'm all for trailers being tested. A terrific idea, more legislation - bring it on I say. Why stop there, let's have an annual house roof survey incase a high wind should set a tile free and it hit a passing pedestrian, and an annual garden tree survey too for similar reasons, let's employ more civil servants to police it all.... The country is fubarred, we need less of this plopplops, not more, if we are ever able to compete again on the world stage. Julian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 OK, here goes..... Dear [insert name of MP / MEP], I would like to bring your attention to a proposal for EU Legislation as described in the following document: http://ec.europa.eu/transport/doc/roadworthiness-package/com%282012%29380.pdf The main objective of the proposal is to improve road safety by improving the roadworthyness of vehicles - something to which I broadly support. However, the proposal includes requirements which effectively prohibit the modification or improvement of vehicles beyond the scope of the original type approval of said vehicle. See Article 3 section 7 & 9 on page 14/15 The paper states that unroadworthy verhicles are responsible for a large proportion of road deaths. However, it does not state nor provide evidence that modified, but still roadworthy vehicles present any additional risk. However, if enacted, the legislation would prohibit any change to the original technical specification of any of the drive line components or those that alter the appearance of the vehicle. As you are aware, the UK has many hundreds of companies involved in the manufacture and sale of after market components which either change the appearance of vehicles or change their characteristics to suit particular applications. Introduction of the legislation as proposed would have a significant impact on the UK economy and endanger many thousands of jobs. As I said, I am not averse to improved roadworthyness testing, just that it should be left to the inspector to determine if a modification impacts roadworthyness on it's own merit, rather than a blanket statement that if it differs from the original type approved specification, it be considered unroadworthy. The UK already has Individual Vehicle Approval testing for 'radically altered vehicles' as well as MOT inspections to determine that a vehicle is roadworthy. A ban on vehicle modifications is thus unnecessary and unwelcome to the tens of thousands of owners who wish to personalise their vehicles to suit their individual needs. Please would you raise an objection to the proposal, or at least these elements of it on our behalf and on behalf of the UK economy. I am, yourse sincerely, [insert your name] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 So the likes of the G4 will finish and other motorsports as well as rally stages, can't see the big car manufactures being to happy about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Absolutly right. Excellent work Simon, may we steal it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 A lot of vehicle modification is effectively "regulated" by the insurance companies (you do declare the modifications don't you.....). If they think a modification causes additional risk they up the premiums so in effect some modofications are effectively banned by virtue of the insurance bill being huge. Not having valid insurance is already an offence so for people wanting to stay legal there is already control. For people who don't bother with insurance at all a fraudulantly claim the vehicle is standard even though it is modified no amount of new legislation is going to have any effect as they are already breaking the law anyway. If getting an IVA for the vehicle will in effect bypass the legislation then frankly that is the way to go, provided modification are done in a safe and correct way you should be fine. If you can't bypass it with an IVA then effectively the entire kit car / low volume build industry would be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Absolutly right. Excellent work Simon, may we steal it? That's the plan! If getting an IVA for the vehicle will in effect bypass the legislation then frankly that is the way to go, provided modification are done in a safe and correct way you should be fine. If you can't bypass it with an IVA then effectively the entire kit car / low volume build industry would be gone. It needs clarification - but you could read it as being in relation to the original type approval of the base vehicle. Not all mamber states have an equivalent of IVA, so it may be that part of the harmonisation would be to remove it or limit it's scope to production prototypes. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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