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Olsmokey

ABS retro fit

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14 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Interestingly, Tom Sheppard in his more recent book was trucking about the desert in a G-Wagen which has as much articulation as a shopping trolley but does have a rear locker, and if anyone knows sand driving it's him.

I think G's have lockers front and rear from the factory.

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It’s not like you don’t get at least one wheel on the ground and as long as it goes round I think you are literally good to go. 🙂

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15 hours ago, Snagger said:

That’s what I’d hoped - the Wabco system in the soft dash only has rear ETC, which is a pity.  For what I do with that car, ETC would suffice, but it has struggled with the front in snow.  It’s a pity that the valve block is incompatible with the P38 ECU, Elbekko.  Any idea if it’s plausible to fit the P38 valve block to a Classic?  I’d imagine the sensors could be a problem, though brake lines should be OK.

You'd have to convert to single-line front calipers. And I have no clue if the pressures are matched at all, it's basically changing to a (potentially very) different master cylinder. Sensors I think will be the least of your worries, it just needs a digital road speed, and the 4 ABS sensors (which I doubt have changed).

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Are any of the early Freelander modules viable options?

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3 hours ago, Gazzar said:

Are any of the early Freelander modules viable options?

Don't see why not, they're compact and I think at least one of them is a standalone unit as they were optional fit early on.

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23 hours ago, elbekko said:

You'd have to convert to single-line front calipers. And I have no clue if the pressures are matched at all, it's basically changing to a (potentially very) different master cylinder. Sensors I think will be the least of your worries, it just needs a digital road speed, and the 4 ABS sensors (which I doubt have changed).

I can't remember for sure, but I think my RR already has single line front calipers.  If I'm not mistaken, 300Tdi era RRCs and Discoverys have that, the twin line system being on the 200Tdi (and earlier RRCs).  I used 300Tdi single hose calipers from an non-ABS donor on the 200 Discovery axle for my 109 to avoid the extra hoses and retain the old pipe layout on that.

John and Gaz, are the Freelander systems similar to the Defender and Discovery system in using a conventional master cylinder that then goes through a self-contained modulator block, rather than the very different pedal and actuator system on the ABS RRCs and P38?  I have never looked under the bonnet of a Freelander, so the vehicle is a bit of a mystery to me.

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On 6/11/2019 at 9:12 PM, FridgeFreezer said:

I can believe that for many systems, including the older ones prior to Terrain Response where it didn't know what surface you were on and therefore couldn't make smart choices about how to behave, and I can well believe that once everyone "knows" that ETC doesn't work in sand & pulls the fuse, that's what they'll do forever no matter the vehicle.

It may well be that just pulling the fuse is as good as anything anyway, especially if the local spec stuff has factory lockers (which some did).

Interestingly, Tom Sheppard in his more recent book was trucking about the desert in a G-Wagen which has as much articulation as a shopping trolley but does have a rear locker, and if anyone knows sand driving it's him.

The local guys modify their vehicles, lockers and tyres being the very first things that go on.  I understand the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon to be relatively unusual in having them from the factory, and it's very popular with the duners (and pretenders) here.  The very rich locals favour G-Wagens (rarely used by expats here).  Those that like more expedition and camping type driving here go for the bigger vehicles, usually the big US or Japanese pickups,  so tend to alter a fair bit as they have a lot of weight and long wheel bases.  One of the locals is very pleased with the results of fitting both axles and the LT230 on his 110Tdci with Ashcroft ATBs (which would be good with a spinning tyre still having resistance in sand, and the Defender's basic ETC breifly activating to trigger the ATBs and then backing off if they get a wheel lift).  I can't help thinking full lockers would be much better for the sand, though.

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1 hour ago, Snagger said:

I can't remember for sure, but I think my RR already has single line front calipers.  If I'm not mistaken, 300Tdi era RRCs and Discoverys have that, the twin line system being on the 200Tdi (and earlier RRCs).  I used 300Tdi single hose calipers from an non-ABS donor on the 200 Discovery axle for my 109 to avoid the extra hoses and retain the old pipe layout on that.

My 300TDi Classic has dual line calipers. The D1 300TDi didn't. It's an easy swap, but still.

Again, my biggest issue with all this would be line pressure differences from having a different master cylinder. The Freelander system could work, as it's a standalone valve block with a separate master. I think the D2 as well?

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5 hours ago, elbekko said:

My 300TDi Classic has dual line calipers. The D1 300TDi didn't. It's an easy swap, but still.

Again, my biggest issue with all this would be line pressure differences from having a different master cylinder. The Freelander system could work, as it's a standalone valve block with a separate master. I think the D2 as well?

The D2 certainly is - if it's not the same system as the late Defenders and late D1, then it's very similar.  The RRC ABS is so much better that I wouldn't go to the Discovery system just for the front ETC.  My 109 has the 300 Discovery brakes all round, including master, servo and biasing valve, but I'm not really interested in fitting it to that - I want ATBs.

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