Tray Back with a BIG difference

[SimonPearson]

Went to lend a hand to my mate Kevin today who's building a new trayback... here's where we started - one of my old 90 chassis' and the cab/bulkhead from a 109... looks like a normal tray back huh?

Er, what's going on here then?

Hope this glue works...

Ta-da!

[honitonhobbit]

Nice

[Andy]

now that will be sexy if you get all the wheels driven.

is that an old spitfire buried in the hedge?

[honitonhobbit]

Or is it a Midget?

[Andy]

wrong lights for midget, plus its got a center filler. the filler on a midget is next to the numebr plate. looks like an early spitfire to me upto mk3 i'd say.

ive got a midget parked outside so i know it aint one of them

[Guest diesel_jim]

Looks like a tray front & back!!! flintstone driven!

6x6 will be cool through! how you going to get the drive to the 3rd axle? drive through centre diff or from the t/case?

[simonr]

how you going to get the drive to the 3rd axle? drive through centre diff or from the t/case?

On my bench I have a transfer box out of a Suzuki SJ413 (don't ask). Anyway, the whole thing is light enough to lift with one hand. I was thinking it would be fairly suitable for arranging a drive to a third axle. The transfer box is normally driven by a prop shaft from the gearbox and is 1:1 in high range. That means that all three drive flanges turn together at the same speed.

If one were to connect the drive flanges which would normally connect to the front & rear prop inbetween the LR rear prop and the first diff, then take a drive from the top flange, via another prop shaft to the second diff - it would sort it out quite simply & cheaply. You could even use the 2WD/4WD lever to disconnect drive to the middle axle (which would make cornering easier as there is no diff between the two axles) or to select a lower gear for the back axle (anti theft device?)

Si

[SimonPearson]

Andy - it's an old Spitfire. Pretty derelict but I think it's for sale if you want it!

Diesel Jim/simonr - current plan is simply to have it as 4wd rather than 6wd.

[Diff]

I like Simonr's idea. 6x4s are not very good offroad and certainly worse than a 4x4. As soon as the ground gets lumpy and the non driven wheels get on a high spot, they reduce the weight on one or more of the driven wheels and traction is lost/compromised.

Regards,

Diff

[bill van snorkle]

On my bench I have a transfer box out of a Suzuki SJ413 (don't ask). Anyway, the whole thing is light enough to lift with one hand. I was thinking it would be fairly suitable for arranging a drive to a third axle. The transfer box is normally driven by a prop shaft from the gearbox and is 1:1 in high range. That means that all three drive flanges turn together at the same speed.

If one were to connect the drive flanges which would normally connect to the front & rear prop inbetween the LR rear prop and the first diff, then take a drive from the top flange, via another prop shaft to the second diff - it would sort it out quite simply & cheaply. You could even use the 2WD/4WD lever to disconnect drive to the middle axle (which would make cornering easier as there is no diff between the two axles) or to select a lower gear for the back axle (anti theft device?)

Si

The theory sounds ok, but an SJ is a very light vehicle compared to a six wheeled Landy. I'd be checking the size of gears and shafts before committing to it. Perhaps the divorced transfercase from an MK or MQ Nissan Patrol would be more appropiate, or a single speed transfercase from a World War 2 Dodge Weapons Carrier. Experience with my own 6x6 Landy back in the 1980's showed that the rearmost differential cops a real hiding offroad, so should be changed for a Salisbury.

Bill.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Agreed

But a 6x4 is a wate of time IMVHO as undriven it will be a drag on the Landy and its ability.

On that basis Simon Rs idea is better than undriven ?

Your idea is better still ?

but why trayback a 6x4 ..................trayback 6x6 maybe ..................

Just don't get this, seems like trying to get a drunk frog with tureets to mend a watch

Nige

[Andy]

zook tbox will take it, they run them with V8s etc over the pond. a landy lump isnt gonna kill one in a hurry.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Well there you go for the "Landuki"

Nige

[Andy]

Zoo-kandy?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

<jap accent on>

"Aahfruckinstuck"

<jap accent off>

Nige

[bill van snorkle]

zook tbox will take it, they run them with V8s etc over the pond. a landy lump isnt gonna kill one in a hurry.

That may be so, but at most in that application the Suzuki t/case is only coping with engine torque multiplied by 1st gear ratio in a light vehicle. In the case of a 6x6 Landy the Zook transfercase would have to cope with engine torque mutiplied by 1st gear ratio multiplied by 3.320 transfercase low range ratio, in a vehicle of around double the weight.

Bill.

[pugwash]

just get yourself a T-box from an torqueflight rangerover auto. has a 1:1 high ratio and is of course lockable too. it would of course be easily strong enough to take the power.

[Andy]

there are a lot of zooks out there with twin tboxes Bill. i know of a few over here & the idea started in the states as far as i know. id have thought that by the time to get to something like my mates vitara on hilux axles, 35s, twin tboxes it wont be carrying that much less load? oh & i know of another similar setup in a SJ thats running a V8 on the front without problems.

i might be wrong, but i do think people under estimate zook parts. i had a zook & loved it, i upgraded just so i could get more carp inside.

[bill van snorkle]

there are a lot of zooks out there with twin tboxes Bill. i know of a few over here & the idea started in the states as far as i know. id have thought that by the time to get to something like my mates vitara on hilux axles, 35s, twin tboxes it wont be carrying that much less load? oh & i know of another similar setup in a SJ thats running a V8 on the front without problems.

i might be wrong, but i do think people under estimate zook parts. i had a zook & loved it, i upgraded just so i could get more carp inside.

OK Andy, Simon,if we assume that the Zook, Nissan or Dodge transfercase is the way to go, where will it be mounted ? It requires a short propshaft with slip joint between the LandRover transfercase and say Suzuki T/case. Minimum length of propshaft 10 inches?How wide is the Zook transfercase? 8 inches ? Total length of Suzuki transfercase plus connecting shaft to LandRover transfercase =18 inches minimum. The LandRover prop shaft from the middle axle must be shortened by at least this amount, and then be attached to the Zook transfercase driveflange. I don't know how long the Landy propshaft was originally, but by the time you lop off 18 inches it doesn't seem like it would be long enough to permit any real degree of suspension travel at the first rear axle, and one commodity a six wheel cross country truck needs in spades is suspension travel.

Bill.

[Andy]

the last time i had a semi serious chat about 6x6 LRs the plan was to use the PTO take off to run a prop to the rear most axle. thinking about it though you'd need a LR tbox so the ratios where the same wouldnt you? plus have to remember to change ratios on BOTH boxes everytime, unless you could rig a fancy linkage?

current thinking (the last 5mins) is the front & center axles driven as normal. prop from the PTO to 2nd LR Tbox then a prop from there to the rear axle. probably mounting the 2nd tbox above/just in front of the center axle. putting the 2nd tbox as far forward as poss would give maximum prop length to help keep lots of articulation on the rear axle.

is this making any sense to anyone? im not sure i understand it but its the way my thoughts are drifting

[bill van snorkle]

the last time i had a semi serious chat about 6x6 LRs the plan was to use the PTO take off to run a prop to the rear most axle. thinking about it though you'd need a LR tbox so the ratios where the same wouldnt you? plus have to remember to change ratios on BOTH boxes everytime, unless you could rig a fancy linkage?

current thinking (the last 5mins) is the front & center axles driven as normal. prop from the PTO to 2nd LR Tbox then a prop from there to the rear axle. probably mounting the 2nd tbox above/just in front of the center axle. putting the 2nd tbox as far forward as poss would give maximum prop length to help keep lots of articulation on the rear axle.

is this making any sense to anyone? im not sure i understand it but its the way my thoughts are drifting

I'm the only one reading this at the moment but it makes sense to me. The only reservation I have is the PTO dog on the back of the LT230 transfer gear is undercut and very thin. strong enough to drive a winch or hydraulic pump, but not really designed to transmit full engine torque in low gear. This deficiency could be overcome though by reworking the gear.

Bill.

[Andy]

ive got a mate who works in a LR specialist, the idea was getting passed about there. i wouldnt claim to know enough about the engineering to come up with a workable solution. i've leave that to you people with engineering skills.

would love to have a 6x6 though, its just a damn good looking truck to me.

[SimonPearson]

Actually, this car will be used for hauling heavy loads rather than for off-roading, hence the 3rd axle to carry the weight and therefore 6wd not required.

[Andy]

there is no fun in being sensible

[TomG]

Some 6x6 conversion info here:

http://www.expeditionoverland.com/selection_and_design.htm

http://www.expeditionoverland.com/specifications.htm