What type of plastic for winch hawse

[dirtydiesel]

I want to making a plastic hawse for my superwinch 525.

i'm looking at using UHWMPE in 30mm thick from here

http://www.directplasticsonline.co.uk/UHMWPESheet/Black/30mm/

What does anyone think of the material for the job?

[vulcan bomber]

acetal or if you like delrin is what you want. It was discussed not so long ago in the readers board of the lro forum.

[CwazyWabbit]

Will be interested to see your results DD when you complete it, are you using the roller fairlead at the moment?

[dirtydiesel]

acetal or if you like delrin is what you want. It was discussed not so long ago in the readers board of the lro forum.

Thanks i'll have a look.

Will be interested to see your results DD when you complete it, are you using the roller fairlead at the moment?

Still intsalling the winch at the moment, so i haven't used it at all.

[dirtydiesel]

mmm.. acetal is quite a bit more than uhmwpe as well.

http://www.directplasticsonline.co.uk/AcetalSheet/Black/30mm/

[CwazyWabbit]

Is it going to be direct PTO drive or via hydraulics? I've just fitted a hydraulic driven Fairey 525.

BTW I'm sure you know already but just in case you don't the fairleads frame is the only thing that holds the two sides of the winch together. Is the plan to male a new metal frame to insert the plastic into? or reuse the old fairlead frame?

[Big.Mike]

mmm.. acetal is quite a bit more than uhmwpe as well.

http://www.directpla...eet/Black/30mm/

I'd give UHMWPE a go, it's really good at wear abrasion and as it is polyethylene isn't hygroscopic like acetal and Delrin... It's quite hard to machine though, it's well worth reading up about that.

Can't tell if you're using a steel or synthetic cable, the synthetic cable might have some odd side affects with the polyethylene...

[dirtydiesel]

Is it going to be direct PTO drive or via hydraulics? I've just fitted a hydraulic driven Fairey 525.

BTW I'm sure you know already but just in case you don't the fairleads frame is the only thing that holds the two sides of the winch together. Is the plan to male a new metal frame to insert the plastic into? or reuse the old fairlead frame?

I'm shaft driving the winch, not keen on hydraulics.

The fairlead only braces the top of the winch together until its bolted into the frame, the earlier fairey 5000 didn't have the fairlead mounting cast into the winch at all.

I had planned on backing the plastic fairlead up with some 5mm stainless

I'd give UHMWPE a go, it's really good at wear abrasion and as it is polyethylene isn't hygroscopic like acetal and Delrin... It's quite hard to machine though, it's well worth reading up about that.

Can't tell if you're using a steel or synthetic cable, the synthetic cable might have some odd side affects with the polyethylene...

I'd planned on making the plastic hawse to use synthetic rope, in an effort to keep my weight down.

I dont think a plastic fairlead would last 5 mins with steel cable.

I've made a few other things out of UHMWPE before, i just wasn't sure if it would melt under the heat and friction of a side pull.

The other option is to machine a hawse out of a slab of stainless, at least then i could use either wire or plasma

[oddballrovers]

Hi Dan

We have been using POM for 4 years ( and we are on the third one now)I have made it so that we can turn it round and wear it on the opposit side ours is just a square block, 70mm thick, with a 20mm hole and then a big radius trumpet, we got the winch in the rear

And yes wire cabel cuts as if that was the intention

Kind regards

Ole

PS I think POM is polyoxymethylen isn't it ?

[dirtyninety]

I have an old friend at university who has gone into the construction of agricultural cultivation equipment, but using plastic wearing parts which have better wear property's than the usually used steel. He's seems to have disappeared off facebook, but Im trying to track him down to asking exactly what he is using.

oddball, how much roughly (in £'s) is a block of POM?

[oddballrovers]

Hi Dirtyninety

I don't no, we have approx 100 pieces in the company a supcontractor did a mistake they are as far as I remeber 100x115x70mm white

If it is only one or two i think it's a beer or two at the Donnington show

Ole

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

What about that stuff mattresses are made of

Tempurar or something ?

Reading the blurb it says

" excellent recovery properties"

I'll get me coat

Nige

[dirtydiesel]

Thanks for the input Nige

For the 525 i need 500x100x30

I think i'm just going to make one out of stainless,

At least then i can use wire rope which i prefere anyway

[CwazyWabbit]

What sort of price does a slab of stainless that size go for? How are you planning to make it? ....sorry for all the questions

[miketomcat]

Dan I have a 20mm thick slab of aluminum about number plate size on my 525 works really well no wear issues with plasma. I can't help thinking plastic will wear quickly. If you want I can take some pics tomorrow.

Mike

[Big.Mike]

I don't think a plastic fairlead would last 5 mins with steel cable.

I dunno, it might be okay, if you think that a lot of bearing surfaces are now plastic.

You would't want the cable to be damaged, the plastic would be sacrificial to a point...

[CwazyWabbit]

Dan I have a 20mm thick slab of aluminum about number plate size on my 525 works really well no wear issues with plasma. I can't help thinking plastic will wear quickly. If you want I can take some pics tomorrow.

Mike

I'd be interested in seeing pictures if possible please Mike

[dirtydiesel]

What sort of price does a slab of stainless that size go for? How are you planning to make it? ....sorry for all the questions

probably about £25,

50mm slot up the middle, make the slot at least 40mm narrower than the winch drum to reduce side bunching.

then run around the edge of the slot with a 25mm radius tool on the outside and 5mm rad on the inside.

[CwazyWabbit]

Cheers Mr Diesel

[dirtydiesel]

Dan I have a 20mm thick slab of aluminum about number plate size on my 525 works really well no wear issues with plasma. I can't help thinking plastic will wear quickly. If you want I can take some pics tomorrow.

Mike

I've killed a few ally hawses, once the rope picks up some abrasive mud they chew through the soft ally real quick.

A lot of engineering plastics have really good wear and abrasion resistance, i just don't know enought about them to pick the right one?

[Big.Mike]

i just don't know enought about them to pick the right one?

IMHO, I reckon you've picked a good one... I know it's better than PTFE for abrasion and easier to machine, its also not hygroscopic which I would think would be important in wet muck!

[vulcan bomber]

PS I think POM is polyoxymethylen isn't it ?

Otherwise known as delrin or acetal as i mensioned at the top of the thread, delrin being its trade name.

[landroversforever]

I'm shaft driving the winch, not keen on hydraulics.

The fairlead only braces the top of the winch together until its bolted into the frame, the earlier fairey 5000 didn't have the fairlead mounting cast into the winch at all.

I had planned on backing the plastic fairlead up with some 5mm stainless

The other option is to machine a hawse out of a slab of stainless, at least then i could use either wire or plasma

I agree with Barry (and I'm sure I heard it from Mike) the fairlead is structural to the winch.

My plan with my EP9 is to machine a stainless fairlead. None on the market have anywhere near the right radius for the size of rope we use (mine is 11mm and needs a 33mm rad).

[roguevogue]

How about one like this instead?

42mm stainless tube.

[simonr]

For Plastic Bar-stock, the best value place I've found is: http://www.bayplastics.co.uk/ particularly for unusual grades and small quantities.

I'm not overwhelmingly convinced about any of the above choices of this type of application. You have very high pressure (compared to most bearing surfaces) combined with a continual supply of new, sharp abrasive. There are some highly abrasive resistant plastics made by IGUS such as Iguidur W300 http://www.igus.co.uk/wpck/default.aspx?pagename=barstock which I've used for bearings submerged in mud with very good results. However, the price of it will make you cry!

Most Aluminium Hawses are made from soft 'Pudding' Grades and wear too fast. This is simply on cost grounds as nobody can tell the exact grade when they buy it. However, I made a hawse in 2003 out of Dural which is very tough & reassuringly expensive and it has suffered no wear what so ever! However, to make a Hawse out of it commercially it would make your winch look cheap!

The best material from a cost / wear / longevity point of view is undoubtedly Stainless. If the radius of the curve is larger, it reduces the pressure exerted by the rope - but machining it out of a block or making it from a bar makes it get rapidly too expensive as the radius increases. This is why on most stainless Hawse's the radius is too small.

The answer is kind of obvious! To make it from tube which keeps the material cost and weight down while giving you the max possible working radius. This reduces the pressure and wear on the hawse - but more importantly wear on the rope! If you make one from plastic, make the working (rubbing) radius as large as possible for this reason.

Si