Which synthetic rop and where to buy?

[dirtydiesel]

I'm looking for 125' of 12mm

I have previously only bought plasma 12 from rufftracks.

I am seriously out of the loop on the subject nowardays, so what do people recomend and where from?

[JST]

i have always used Bowrope from David. i have confidence in it so stick with it. the ropes we used for CT11 lasted on my comp truck up until KOV this year - so them seem durable. Nick and I also ran the same ropes for a year in HW series.

once people have confidence in one type they tend to stick with it.

[Off Road Toad]

Bowrope also gets my vote, very durable.

[BogMonster]

+1 for Bowrope, I have two, but only because I made the first one into an extension rope, both are still in v good condition

[RedLineMike]

+1 for bowrope here aswell.

[dirtydiesel]

100' of 14mm bowrope ordered today from David.

Thanks everone for your recomendations.

[treebloke]

100' of 14mm bowrope ordered today from David.

Thanks everone for your recomendations.

14mm - thats a tug rope

[dirtydiesel]

14mm - thats a tug rope

Mech pto with no overload device!! i'm just erring on the side of caution.

[Andy-T]

14mm Bowrope - NBS - 24,900lbs (spliced)!

11mm Plasma - NBS - 21,000lbs (spliced!

12mm Plasma - NBS - 31,300lbs (spliced)!

14mm Plasma - NBS - 37,900lbs (spliced)!

Please tell me why you would buy Bowrope??

Thicker is not always stronger!!

Andy Thomlinson.

[Off Road Toad]

I think the number of people using and recommending it speaks for itself doesn't it? numbers on sheets of paper are great but don't always tell the whole story.

[Andy-T]

Dear Off Road Toad,

Not really, hardly a measured response (4) considering the number of 4x4, winch users in the UK.

Surely you don't ignore facts in favour of recommendations, I really find that somewhat disingenuous

Also, to assume that by buying a thicker grade you are achieving higher strengths is inaccurate & just plain wrong.

Further more, by purchasing a thicker grade you get less on the drum and have to use larger radius hawes & snatch blocks because if you don't your line will fail.

With me so far?

Chapter2.

Please remember, the manufacturers of all synthetics recommend a minimum radius of 3 times the circumference of the line used.

This can make quite a difference in offroad conditions.

If you do the maths you will understand my point & it does make shocking stats for all to consider in this application.

Why don't I save you the time - 12mm line = 114.12mm, 14mm line = 133.14mm minimum radius required to avoid failure of the line!

I could continue with this "story", but would only bore us both with facts & figures, clearly of no relevance in your decision making process.

Andy Thomlinson.

[Off Road Toad]

Sounds as though you have the hump because everyone in this thread has recommended an alternative manufacturer to yours? I am very aware of how testing products and their results can be 'manipulated' to the advantage of the seller WHICHEVER MANUFACTURER that may be. A simple question was asked by the OP and was directed at users NOT traders. We have answered the question as to which rope we use and have no problems with. Currently the rope that works for those of us who have posted is Bowrope!

[Daan]

I think the main reason for using Bowrope is price: 100 ft of 11 mm bowrope is £189, 100 ft of 11 mm Plasma is £229. That for most people settles it quite easily, without looking at the full picture.

I am a Plasma user, did RFC on 1 new 9.5 mm Plasma rope, and later Ladoga on 1 new 11 mm plasma rope. Both were a whole lot more than I could hope for, given the amount of abuse it gets. I will therefore continue to use Plasma, also bearing in mind that breaking a rope can write of your car, not to mention loss of life.

As has been mentioned, Bowrope users almost always go for a thicker rope than Plasma users.

Feel free to disagree, after all, thats what a forum is for!

Daan

[Andy-T]

Dear Off Road Toad,

Happy to report that I am free of deformities for the moment - yet another inaccuracy corrected!

I have a winch, it is fitted with genuine Plasma and I highly recommend it, as I am sure you have concluded by now. So not everyone on the thead is behind one supplier/manufacturer - second correction.

Manipulation of recognised industry standards & testing results is surely not acceptable behaviour - are you stating publically that certain published, certified testing figures are wrong?

If so, please be good enough to specify which ones are breaking the strict regulations that govern this industry,

I merely stated for the record the freely available Nominal Breaking Strains for two products, are both wrong , both right, or is it just the ones you like that you believe to be right?

Also, I would like to point out that those with a vested interest, assisted, supported & in some casses, sponsored by a particular supplier are in no position to give a clear and unbiased opinion. perhaps they should also be "dumped" in the same bucket as those nasty "traders".

Once again,

Kindest regards,

Andy Thomlinson ( happy not to hide behind a pseudonym & freely admiting to be one of those "nasty traders").

[Diesel_90]

I've had 125ft of 11m plasma on my front 8274 for a few years now and it has lasted with no problems to date. As and when the time comes I will look at both the options (bow and plasma) but I would be tempted to stick with the plasma as I know it has served me well. I suppose it's all down to opinion but the facts do look intresting when comparing the two

[Off Road Toad]

I'm not hiding behind a pseudonym! Pretty much everyone here knows who i am . Everyone has their choice and its up to them where they put their money. Personally i don't think your attitude particularly helpful or an encouragement to buy your product. and please i'm not your child nor your pupil so please don't bother correcting me . Test results in a controlled environment are very different to the way a product behaves in real world situations is all i am getting at. I was amazed at the amount of Synthetic ropes that were snapped when we did the Transilvania trophy (by other competitors) yet not a single wire rope got broken! so there are obviously other variables that come in to play in the real world vs control tests. I appreciate there is a safety concern these days regarding wire ropes but my guess is there have probably been more knock - on injuries caused by snapped synthetic ropes and the resulting crash/roll than by a whipping wire rope, but i digress - this was just a simple question regarding peoples current preferences.

Best regards, Steve Francis (if you'd like some more of my details just ask

[Dave W]

I used to use Plasma, nowadays I've changed to Bowrope. I've snapped 11mm Plasma in a straight pull a few times now (single motor 8274, 12v XP). The first time I did it I thought it was the fairlead that was the problem but have snapped different ropes with both the front and rear winches now (having replaced the fairlead). Bowrope hasn't snapped yet on a straight pull so I'm pretty happy with it. I'm pretty gentle on ropes normally and any breakage and it gets replaced. In the latter two cases the rope was out around half it's length and, unknown to me, the vehicle was wedged up against a hidden tree trunk in deep mud. The vehicle was level and the pull was direct, no deflection of the rope around the fairlead and when the rope snapped it snapped at the drum... which is a royal PITA to find the end of to get the rope off the drum !

That said I think they are both good products, not sure why the Plasma kept breaking but I've lost faith in it as a result and, so far, the Bowrope that replaced it has been fine so I'm sticking with that as it seems to work.

The testing figures may be good on paper for Plasma and, generally, Plasma has done the job for me. I suspect the problem comes down to the ropes ability to cope with the abuse any rope will get when used off road. Wire rope is usually far lower rated than synthetic but wire rope failures are far rarer even with ropes that have seen some abuse. Wire rope survives because it's more resilient and, unfortunately, you can't really test that on a test rig. So far Bowrope has proved to be resilient and has survived everything it's been used for, time will tell if I switch back.

Dave Bowyer is also very helpful and a genuinely nice bloke and I'm happy to support a business run by someone like that, especially when the product is cheaper and seems to be just as good as the alternatives in practice.

The Dynapull looks interesting too although a bit spendy, especially the pre-stretched stuff which, again on paper, looks excellent but I've not got any first hand experience of that (and not likely to on my budget !).

[Andy-T]

Hi All,

It is time for me to take a step back & chill down. I have over reacted and, on reflection and re-reading my posts they appear confrontational and not in keeping with this forum, nor my usual laid back approach to life in general.

I have known David Bowyer for many years and in fact Plasma would not be as well established in the UK if it were not for David’s help and enthusiasm some 12 years ago when setting up Ruftraks UK Limited. He did both promote and sell Plasma exclusively for some years and for this I will be always indebted to him.

Time moves on and David sourced other brands of synthetic winch line to replace Plasma – this does not make him a bad person, in fact I still consider him a friend and someone I would have no hesitation in phoning if I needed help or advice. After all, he is the font of all knowledge when it comes to all things in the world of winches & offroading in General (4 stars at least).

So, we live in a world of choice, covering quality and price – this is a good thing and not something to get hot under the collar about, today has not been a good day for me as I have the worst case of “man flu” in many years, reducing what little short fuse I normally have, to no fuse at all. For this I apologise unreservedly to all concerned.

There are as many products out there as there are prices and specifications. If you are willing to do your homework you will make the correct, informed choice that suits both your pocket and application.

Right, back to bed for me and I hope tomorrow is a better day!

Andy Thomlinson.

[BogMonster]

I think the main reason for using Bowrope is price: 100 ft of 11 mm bowrope is £189, 100 ft of 11 mm Plasma is £229. That for most people settles it quite easily, without looking at the full picture.

That was my main reason, happy to admit it, and when I bought the second rope it was because the first one was a product I was happy with (and it was still cheapest of several I looked at). I have nothing against the other products and no experience of using them.

[JST]

Also, I would like to point out that those with a vested interest, assisted, supported & in some casses, sponsored by a particular supplier are in no position to give a clear and unbiased opinion. perhaps they should also be "dumped" in the same bucket as those nasty "traders".

as your probably referring to me

yes i use Bowrope and always have. yes i am sponsored by Goodwinch.

did i use the product for may years before i was sponsored yes.

why do i use it - because i have confidence in it.

as i put in my first reply i think once people have confidence in a particular product they tend to stick with it. why change what works.

my confidence comes from its durability and it hasn't let me down. Nick and i ran the same bowrope on the front or RV4 for a whole HW series. the rear was on there closer to 2 years. and you cant say they didnt get alot of abuse.

in CT11 we put new 12mm Bowropes on Philons truck. they did CT11 and then went onto my trayback and did 7 further events, i changed the front this year for KoV12.

the point ref min bend radi is one i keep mentioning to people when they look at thicker rope, 11mm Bowrope works well for me, although i have used 12mm when crewing on twin motors winches.

so people can disregard the above and put it with the traders opinions if they wish, i still have the option to post it, my signature is also a recommendation of the product.

Most people know i am sponsored anyway, something for which i am very grateful and i have no issue with it being highlighted here.

[dirtydiesel]

Well done Andy for apologising, shame about the rest of your coments though.

I have used your product extensively in the past, several sucsessive 3 peaks trophy's, mid summer madness, hw series and on the ladoga trophy.

I badly abused and (quite rightly) broke every rope i bought, exept for the last a g4 orange rope for some reason.

I had and still have a lot of faith in plasma, but it has been over 4 years since i bought any synthetic rope and in that time the market place has changed, and a lot of people i talked to before i posted here had said they were running bowrope without any regrets.

This coupled with the unanamous recomendation in this thread, led me to buy from David.

Of course the price difference 3 weeks before christmas didn't hurt either.

[JST]

Picking up on the comment form Andy about bending radii the obvious way forward would be a large diameter hawse. i know a lot of people offer them but the one on Jerry Hunts vehicle looks a bit more suitable than any other i have seen or used.

If people wanted an unbiased opinion of it they could ask him.

I am also supported by Delta Tek who make it so it could be considered unfair to ask my opinions......

[landroversforever]

About the radii on fairleads... I thought it was 3x the diameter of the rope not 3x the circumference?

[simonr]

Even if it's 3x the diameter that gives 33 to 42mm radius or 66 to 84mm diameter bar/tube If you made a hawse like that - it would be bigger than your bumper! 3x the circumference would give 207mm to 263mm diameter tube/bar! That hawse would be big enough to pull the Land Rover through the slot!

It's still fair to say, the bigger the better - or at least the longer the rope will last with sideways pulls in particular.

I've not used the Delta-Tek one - but it has the biggest diameter of any on the market (I've come across) and therefore is likely to prolong the life of any rope compared to the others.

OK, there is a connection between my company & Delta-Tek (Nick & I are friends) so I'm obviously a bit biassed but I think the above is only a statement of the obvious and thus cannot be biassed advice! If there were one with bigger diameter - that would be better but there are limits to what is practical to fit!

Si

[JST]

it depends where you look on the radi, some say 5 - 7 x r for steel, some 3 -5 x r for synthetic, all min.