V8 Freak Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 A friend has a 1999 Td5 Disco2 (auto) which until recently was running fine. He has recently serviced it, new fuel filter, oil etc..... He works for the AA so we should assume this is all done to the right standard. The vehicle was running fine after the service but without warning just stopped during a journey. Since then he's recovered it home and the following has happened... Checked Fuel pump, fuel getting to front of the car. Had ECU tested.. Was reported dead and when attached to Faultmate shows a lot of errors. Bought replacement ECU for same year / Auto. New ECU has learned the Alarm codes and injectors programmed in. Tested ECU with Faultmate, no faults or error codes. ECU is seeing crank pulses (Can see when cranking within Faultmate) Faultmate reports that the system is not immobilised and recognises the codes and suggests it's all operating normally. Running the individual tests it runs up the fuel pump, fires injectors etc. so we are assuming the ECU is now ok. Just in case the injectors were not opening when the fuel system was purged after checking for fuel at the front of the car, we purged it again. Cranks but does not fire. Squirt some easy start into the Air Flow Meter and it tries to start.... From all of this we are deducing that the high pressure fuel pump on the engine may have failed.... But we cannot fathom why the ECU and the high pressure fuel pump would or could fail at the same time. (Assuming this is the case.) Has anyone experienced the high pressure fuel pump failing and killing the ECU? (Or vice versa?) Is there anything else we could or should try? Any advice from the wealth of experience on here would be most welcome. Thanks in advance Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 You should be able to hear the fuel pump running. I've not come across a failure of both before but I guess it is possible - the ECU switches the pump though I think it's via a relay. Check the crash switch isn't tripped if it has one fitted, and if not, ands you can't hear it with your head under the tank when somebody switches the ignition on, it's probably time for a new pump. You can plumb in a gauge and check - pressure should be 58psi/4bar at the engine - but if you can't hear it then it is usually f***ed! The other things that could be worth checking are - EM interference from the starter, easy way to rule that out is tow start it or bump start on a hill. - the injector washers causing air to get into the fuel system - is the pump noisy? - crank sensor, doesn't usually show up as a fault but will stop it starting and running if it isn't working properly, easy to swap off a known good vehicle to check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 The 10AS may be shot - I had one that would work the central locking and do the light flashing and dash led but didn't unlock the immobiliser. Try a 10AS from another TD5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Thanks for the initial feedback Steve... Pump is definitely running, can hear it and with Faultmate we can make it run and fire injectors etc. We believe crank sensor is working because we can see RPM registered in Faultmate when cranking. Si.... Faultmate is advising no issues with alarm ECU and that they system has confirmed codes and that the ECU is not immobilised. I have a spare 10AS unit for my Defender... What would we have to do with keys / alarm codes to get this installed as a replacement and test? Have access to Faultmate and Nanocom Evolution, just need the knowledge.... Is it going to be worth purging several times and just go round the basics once again?? Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Neil, When you say fuel is getting to the front of the car what do you mean? is the fuel reaching the engine at high pressure? or just getting there? it is possible that when the filter was changed he disturbed some crud and it ended up in the FPR gauss filter and is causing a fuel blockage and although you will see pressure into the FPR you may be getting nothing out. As for the ECU have you swapped like for like as being a 1999 engine I take it it's an earlier 10p engine/ecu? It is possible that it could have been showing faults for a while and they are just old un-cleared ones? Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 For swapping 10As, just download config using on faultmate, replace and then reconfigure as per old settings. Can't remember procedure exactly but you need to initiate a 'relearn' for new 10AS with ECU. As a say I can't recall exactly, but do remember it was easy. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Thanks Jason / Steve... Will pass along the comments Jason... I didn't do the work (Which is probably quite fortunate) so will need to ask how Stu was assessing pressure / fuel delivery to the front.. It may be worth while investing in another fuel filter just in case I guess and investigating pressure out of FPR. ECU is like for like. Thanks Steve.. We will have a play... I'm sure we will be able to figure it out but easier if we know we are heading in the right direction... Any other suggestions?? Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I don't think it will be the main filter Neil but the little gauss catch filter that inserts inside the engine block behind the FPR, I have known people have issues with dirt in that before blocking the fuel, when they pull the main fuel line off the FPR (the main flow line is the easy one to remove) then you will notice that you are getting full fuel pressure. Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 pull the fuel pipe off the regulated side of the system i.e the return pipe down to the filter that comes off the fuel cooler. it should absolutely **** out and not just give a little dribble or steady flow. ive got a pressure tester for td5's if your local to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 The report from the front line last night was that the vacuum tube to fuel pressure regulator seems to have dissappeared.... Even the metal pipe !! FPR rebuild / replace and hopefully it will burst back to life.... Fingers crossed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 what vacume tube ? if its the 10p engine which it should be as its a 99, there should only be 2 pipes on the regulator feed in and then it comes out and down to the fuel cooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Well that may explain why he can't find it.... He's going to overhaul it anyway and see if it solves the problem... Neil (V8's are definitely simpler than Td5's...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 unless fuel is flooding out of the regulator at the back where the diaphram is and where he thinks a vacume should be ( which the td5 doesnt have ... just a hole instead) he is wasting his time as this wont solve the problem first thing is first, make sure there is enough fuel pressure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickMc Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Stick half a tank in it and tow it. Its full of air from the sounds of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 you shouldnt need to put half a tank of diesel in to purge the system unless the fuel pump cant get a good suction supply on the lp side, which is usually because the main strainer on the fuel pump body it blocked take the pipe off from the inlet manifold to intercooler and spray the easy start into there. make sure you have also got another running car with jump leads attatched to it aswel as you need the fastest possible cranking speed. another tip is to remove the glow plug relay and work the glow plugs via a jump wire, give them a good 30s of heat just like on the old n/a engines if he doesnt get a massive arc when bridged then he is a glow plug or two down and this makes a big difference to trying to start the bugger when the bores are now washed with diesel from trying to start it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickMc Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I still bet that it needs a tow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 its an auto else id say tow it as well played with and own too many td5's ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Passed on your latest comments yella.... Fingers crossed he can get it sorted soon... Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickMc Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 its an auto else id say tow it as well played with and own too many td5's ! That'll teach me i didn't see it was an auto! I work at them everyday as well they can be a right pain in the behind sometimes. I'd be measuring the fuel pressure with a gauge to see what you are getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 That's his next step.. Refurb FPR and replace gauss filter... Then measure pressure. I'll be sure to share progress. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 If you need to tow any LR product to get it to start, something's ++wrong. They don't tow them to start them off the production-line. I'd suggest doing the stock fuel-system purge-cycle 2 or 3 times. If it won't start after that you have a deeper underlying problem that needs solving before you make any further attempts to start it. --Tanuki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbowler Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 1 disco 2 does not have high pressure pump on engine( it has 5 EUI s )or 10as unit. 2. Have you carried out security learn with the fault mate thingies? 3. Does the central locking work. 4. Pump throttle 7 times and let the fuel pump run for 3-5 mins. Listen to hear the fuel swiching thru head. 5. Crank engine with throttle full depressed for 1 minute and see if you get smoke at exhaust. 6. What fault codes did you have on the old ecu. Did you have " top side failure" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 There is news..... It's running.... And basically the key suggestions were in this thread. It turned out to be the fuel pump. It had detached itself from the cradle in the tank and subsequently was pumping but not at the right pressure. New pump in, FPR overhauled, system purged and Stu managed to get it started. Learnings... When purging from an empty / changed system, you will hear diesel squirting around the system.. This was not happening with the compromised pump. Thanks go to all of you from Stuart... He is once again a happy chappy. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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