ajh Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 This is probably a stupid question but I figured I'd want to make sure. The 2.25D clutch is clearly differently designed than the 200TDI/Disco one, when putting the 200TDI into a Series III I gather you use the Series clutch basket? Just got the old engine out, hopefully getting the new one in position to figure out the engine mounts before the end of the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 You need to use a series clutch plate. and any tdi cover plate you wish, even a series one should work. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 The series one has what looks like the replacement for a release bearing attached to the clutch fingers, the 200TDI has the normal bearing-style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 You have to use the Series friction plate, the TDi plate has 24 splines which won't match the gearbox! Been there tried that for several hours! Release bearing attached...i've heard of that before but I can't think where or why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 The series one has what looks like the replacement for a release bearing attached to the clutch fingers, the 200TDI has the normal bearing-style. Then it is a cover from a series 2 or 2a. What is the gearbox? g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 Not sure, it's yellow if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 http://i718.photobuc...A1/P1120164.jpg shows a 2A diaphragm cover on the left and a S3/90/110 etc cover on the right. So if you have a S2a clutch release mechanism you want the left type. Be carefull as some Tdi covers are only 9.25" diameter and the series drive plate will overhang the edge. If your series has a coil spring cover change it to the diaphragm type as the Tdi has a 3 dowel alignment for the cover and the coil spring cover has only 2 dowels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 a series friction plate and any cover plate for a 9" clutch. i found that with the power of a tuned 200TDi i needed a 200TDi disco cover to cope. the series cover didnt hack the power and couldnt sammich hard enough. It makes the clutch a bit heavier, but you could probably make it easier using a defender master and slave maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Also You have to use the Series friction plate, the TDi plate has 24 splines which won't match the gearbox! Been there tried that for several hours! Release bearing attached...i've heard of that before but I can't think where or why Release bearings on a series box (which has a cast fork) are not attached as such, but are clipped onto the fork to hold them in during installation. not neccisarily needed. but a series release bearing works with a 200TDi cover no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 Am I better off just fitting the LT77/LT230 in place of the Series IIA units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Well thats according to how you will drive it. Its a lot of work to fit the lt77, but for me its peace of mind. Many people run series boxes with no ill effects. I had the series box for some years, but i eventually started killing it on a frequent basis. I must admit i used to drive it like a proper holigan, so thats my fault. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 OK, so the reasonable option is mount up the 200, deliver as agreed, upgrade transmission at a later date if/when needed. It already has a coil chassis so the rest of the drivetrain should already be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Release bearings on a series box (which has a cast fork) are not attached as such, but are clipped onto the fork to hold them in during installation. not neccisarily needed. The series one has what looks like the replacement for a release bearing attached to the clutch fingers, the 200TDI has the normal bearing-style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave88sw Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 discomikey meant series 3 release bearings, they are not attached to the clutch fingers, earlier ones were.T he series 3 clutch looks identical to the disco clutch but the pressure plate isn't quite as highly sprung like he says so a good combo is the disco pressure plate with a series friction plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 SIII gear boxes are fine behind a Tdi unless you have a very aggressvive driving manner or are trialling/rock crawling. Just be progressive with the clutch and throtle and maintain the oil levels properly with standard 12,000 mile changes and it'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 No issues with my 200 and full series clutch driving the 4-speed either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 Ran into another issue today. Nobody doing the conversion has mentioned anything about how the turbo and the steering rod want to occupy the same space when using the Disco 200TDI. Had I known this I would have sourced a Defender 200TDI, which if I do now (manifold/turbo at least) means that I end up having to order more custom exhaust sections to get things connected up... Any ideas? I'm thinking perhaps a custom bent steering rod and clocking the turbo will be needed which probably also means re-locating the alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 I'm starting to think the only/best option is to find a Defender intake/exhaust manifold, turbo, and replace the Steve Parker Disco conversion downpipe with a Defender conversion one. Does that grok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 and in that event... anyone know of someone with the needed parts around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneandtwo Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 You might well get away with a 300tdi manifold but it will be close. I prefer this combination on a series anyway - disco 200TDI and 300TDi manifold - I had all three engines spare - disco and defender 200tdi and a 300tdi when I converted mine and decided this was the best and neatest option. You have to make a downpipe to clear the LH engine mount and I turned the turbo outlet so it was facing upwards although you need to TIG weld the wastegate actuator bracket if you do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I *think* there would be room if you used the 300 turbo and manifold...I'm assuming you are left hand drive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The 200tdi turbo wants to occupy the space of the steering box on lhd models, which is why most US conversions also fit PAS at the same time using Saginaw boxes. The 300tdi manifold and turbo might work as it's tighter to the block, but "try before you buy", if possible, even if that just means taking measurements of how far from the block the turbo protrudes. While 300tdis are set well forwards in Defenders so that the duct from air filter to turbo can sit between the head and bulkhead, and you don't have that space in a Series, the engine sits much lower in a Series allowing the pipe to run over the head below the bonnet. That deals nicely with the airfilter issue: just use a 300tdi unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Ej, I forgot at the time of writing about the old series 1/2 clutch thrust system which is an entirely different design employing a normal ball bearing and a sleeved "thrust face" this will also sit fine with any of the pressure plates. SIII gear boxes are fine behind a Tdi unless you have a very aggressvive driving manner or are trialling/rock crawling. Just be progressive with the clutch and throtle and maintain the oil levels properly with standard 12,000 mile changes and it'll be fine. Check, and check, aggressive driving at times and trialling. Series box with fairly overdrive only ever done the lays haft bearing, which is more likely to do with the what I can describe as sand deposit that came out the box when I drained it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveHarris Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Great reading. I have a 1972 SIII 88 SW which I bought in the UK in the late 80's whilst living there. Mellie became part of our lives, and I brought her back to Zim when we returned. We have now owned her for 25 years, and I'm going to give her an extensive facelift this year to celebrate this fact. She will become a fun machine, sometime bush crawler etc. I have an opportunity now to purchase a 1990 Disco 200Tdi, which gearbox has collapsed, and is a bit tatty elsewhere. As I have long hankered to put the 200 Tdi engine into my SIII, it seems like a golden opportunity. What else will I need to be aware of in doing this, as parts for the conversion will all have to be fabricated locally here. Would items like the PAS etc be readily used for conversion, or even doing the disc brake conversion. Obviously, if I cannibalise the Disco, I want to use as much of it as possible. Thanks for the benefit of your experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spongie Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Engine - Fit it in, can even use almost all the ancilaries, Rad/Intercooler will fit, turbo may fit depending on LHD or RHD on an 88"Exhaust - Original discovery exhaust can be canibalised to make a new exhaust for the 88" 200tdiGearbox - if not mashed would have been better suited to use in zam rather than potentially blowing series box in the bush.Pas - can be fitted with a bit of thought, I've seen one or two clever conversions starting to appear.Brakes - No, you'd struggle very very much to convert the series to disco brakes.Axles - Possible, but a lot of work to convert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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