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Upgrade LR Axles or Replace?


Warthog

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Just priced up Diffs, Arbs Shafts CV's for LR Axles (Ashcroft) :blink: 3K later and i am thinking, is it cost effective? Mog axles, Dana or Toyota.......? An option under 3K, that lets me run 35's allday would br ideal :)

Cheers

One more thing....Anyone used Ashcrofts Cushdrives?....

There you go tony just to remind what the post is about and what was being asked imformation about

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All im looking for is a set-up that will work and be cost effective? Underdrive and Pegged diffs? But that still leaves Half shafts and Cv's to sort?

I would not buy an underdrive in your situation - remember when you drop the gearing you multiply the torque. So, if you can uprate your drivetrain with all that stuff for thousands of pounds so it won't break in "normal" low box, then you double the torque input (or whatever the numbers are) and hey presto, you've just effectively halved the strength of your blingy components.

I know Will may not have broken things, but I'd put money down that at some point he will break something and then it's ££££ to replace like-for-like (even if you can throw in a cheap stock part to limp home). If you fit a jap axle and it takes the same amount of time to break, you have a couple of grand in the bank in the meantime and probably a lower cost to fix again.

Rover axles are OK to a point, then it gets expensive because people are terrified of attatching anything different to their vehicle and would rather bolt in different internals than spend a few quid or a bit of time & thought getting something stronger welded on.

Look at Salisbury axles - how many of those do you see on the backs of comp trucks? Yes they're heavier and yes they lose maybe 1" clearance but they don't break and you can buy one for £30. I've seen a few triallers/racers with them but no-one on the challenge scene seems to want to do it. Andy did it on his Ibex front & rear and it worked well, Bathtub Pete stuck 101 axles on his and as far as we know never broke anything, cost him about the same as blinging a rover axle but he'd already blinged & broken a lot of rovers.

If this was the states people would be chopping salisburys up & welding them together to make front & rear axles for comp 90's and probably making a sh*load of money selling them too.

The old thing about spares availability is bull, there are enough TLC's, Pajeros, Hiluxes and Patrols kicking round these days to provide spares and the bodies rust before anything else breaks so the scrapyards are only gonna get fuller as time goes on. You can buy a rusty jap motor for <£500, rob the axles and flog the rest and probably end up with axles for free.

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Ali I do like the topic but you seem totally blikered towards Toyo/Nissan gear now your in Aus

when you were here Kam was the bees knees/with M/D shafts in the rear.with your GKN overload hubs(that actually belonged to Bathtub but he got rid as they weren't up to his driving standards/abilities)

it comes down to what people can do themselves or pay to have done.

as for throwing money at a truck WTF has that to do with anyone?

I earn the money so am entitled to do with it as I want as you or anyone else is.

re mark up what I was trying to get across is now all the companies mentioned aboved add loads of ££ to the cost price, granted some do.

Onto Salisbury axles:

ideal large R/P then let down by shafts the same size as most Rover ones.

but again not all people can chop them up and fabricate everything.

IIRC the were some Dana 60 being offered fitted but the ££ was 7k unbreakable(perhaps) but as the majority aren't running Holden V8 or any other B/Block v8 instead 200-300/TD5 what is the point of building for 300+ hp.

when someone repeatedly busts the best we have on offer for Rover gear then a look elsewhere as Will sstated would have to be the next move forwards.

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Look at Salisbury axles - how many of those do you see on the backs of comp trucks? Yes they're heavier and yes they lose maybe 1" clearance but they don't break and you can buy one for £30. I've seen a few triallers/racers with them but no-one on the challenge scene seems to want to do it. Andy

If I had the chance to find one at 30£ I'd take it!

If I hadn't fitted some parts already I'd like to try a Toy/Rover axle @ front (Toy diff) and Salisbury conversion at rear...

Experiments,experiments...spice of life...

:D

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Uh OH....I have gone and opened a can of wriggles with this topic :blink:

I have no favoured option be it LR, Toyo, Nissan, Jeep. When i priced up Ashcrofts componants i priced up with new diffs/Arb and them building them up. O.k i could do it myself. But for the small fee to have them fitted, i decided it would be money well spent.

My interest in other Axles is purely down to what i can get for the lowest budget. But the axles must be tough and worth the time and effort to upgrade to. All options given here are useful in assertaining my choice, but its got to be cost effective.

I agree with the statement "UK LR owners are blinkered to one axle" But i think we all know why, and the reasons have been aired on this thread. However, i think in time just like Mog axles. Jap axles are going to start creeping under Land Rovers. But the trend has'nt kicked of yet! Now if the likes of "Dollthelw" gets his hands stuck into sticking a pair under a truck, then i believe you may see more follow? Oh great master of Grinder Fu...show us the road less travelled :hysterical:

My Truck has to be always on a tight budget, but how i and most of us outway cost, is by doing the Grafting oursleves. Cup of tea in one hand and Mallet in tuther :)

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Best thing is go and have a look at a Nissan Diff and CV and Half shaft. Then come back and say a Landy uprated one is better.

The crown wheel on a Nissan is 35mm thick, and the shafts are the thickness of you wrist, The Cv's are 25% bigger than Land Rover ones. Don't forget the Nissan and Toyotas weigh near to 3 ton, over 3 ton comp ready

you keep pinging up leafer axles

unless you want spacers or big wheel offest you'll need to go hunt for some gq/gu axles or 80 series 'yota.

mq axles or 60/70 series wont be wide enough

unfortunately coiler axles go for a lot more, seems the japs had sorted out rust by the time they shifted to coils.

as an aside, if you're willing to rely on dealers and such , toyota will possibly usurp gm to become the largest car manufacturer in the world this year. i dont suppose you can beat that for backup.

regarding spares, there's no Britpart for patrol's or toyotas in the uk, discs for example are quite pricey. in aus i'd say no question, but here they didn't sell a huge number (which is a pity). 8o series landcruisers are more common (but have good residual value) and gq's a bit frustratingly rare, the latter having support pretty much from dealer only.

don't get me wrong, i'm a great cheapskate and see the rover upgrade as a dead end, but i dont think the jap route is simple as you make out either

as for the back end, what the worry with a sals, some folk struggle to give them away and you can fill them up with d60 internals

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O.K different aproach to my question.

What is the best way to go about Uprating? With a budget of 3K for front and rear?

Salisbury Axles: D60 internals £££'s A mate runs a TJ and Jeep stuff over here is like tough to source and costly. Rear Sals Disc braked? I guess i would be looking at a pretty new axle?

Excuse my ignorance, can you get Arbs and 4:11 R&P for em?

Head spinning and as enlightened as a mushroom in the dark :D

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Having had both Toyota & jeep in the UK ………… the spares are mighty f’kin expensive.

Try this ……….. KJ front pads = £160 ……… rear pads =£170 ………. They have only just become available from aftermarket suppliers but still very pricey.

Cam belt …….. £155 ……….. injector £922 ………… I could go on.

When I had the yota things were not much better…….. hilux front discs …..£101 and that was 4 years ago.

Certainly around where I live you just don’t see any scrap yota’s or patrols ………. Yet in Oz they are a dime a dozen. It’s a bit like big V8’s ……… here you will pay through the nose ………. in the states’ a dime a dozen.

I’ll stick with Rover axles for the time being ……….. and yes, I have the skills and equipment to fab if I need to ………… as yet I can see no point apart from going down the Volvo portal route, and I don’t want to do that quite yet.

Ian

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ARBs are readily available.

what do you plan to do with the vehicle?

Depending on the cost of this issue? Standard or Modified class, challenge events. With the cost of Uprating the axles with ARB's etc, i may just stick with what i have for awhile and stick with Standard class?

Like the idea of getting axles that are up for the job of introducing ARB's in the future without uprating everything else. Thats where is has got expensive! Jap Axles seem to have a tougher internals from the factory?

Salisbury rear, but what is there upfront standard for LR thats uprated from stock, but not ££££'s

What do 130'" trucks run?

Cheers

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130s have the same front as a 90.

maybe you can locate some cheap jap gear and have that fitted

stronger from factory but long term bits pieces may bite back like Ian says, discs/pads/seals/bearings etc etc.

lots of choice but as every dependant on budget/ability

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Salisbury Axles: D60 internals £££'s A mate runs a TJ and Jeep stuff over here is like tough to source and costly. Rear Sals Disc braked? I guess i would be looking at a pretty new axle?

Excuse my ignorance, can you get Arbs and 4:11 R&P for em?

The rears you can bolt disc brakes onto using 100% LR parts. Front axles are hard to come by but still cheaper than uprating a Rover one, ISTR P.A.Blanchard had a few from military vehicles they were selling in the region of £300. Don't know about the availability of 4.11's but Series salisburies are 4.7:1, Andy used these in his Ibex.

Your best bet is to price up a few things and decide what works best for what you want to do.

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But you still need a different Centre and shafts/drive members

the diff centre is larger but the shafts are the same size as Rover ones

another Rover cost saving exercise.

replacement bits for a Salisbury will still be expensive but you could get overall bigger shafts/Cvs in the casing.

I'd look a pricing 101s as an exercise as they are huge!

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With a lot of Jap axles you would be hard pushed to run locked 35’s all day long without upgrades to CV’s and shafts

Ian

Cannot write from experiance. But from what the OZ forums mention. They seem to run 35's locked without trouble?

Well its gonna come down to £££'s at the end of the day. Fitting and doing some basic fab work is within my capabilites.

Next inline will be a thread "What would be a good upgrade from stock transfer and gearbox" :i-m_so_happy:

As i know once the axles are sorted, im only gonna stress the next inline componants (previously written)

Reckon its time to do some homework and get on with it......

Dynatrac.....tricked up Dana axles i believe?

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Uh OH....I have gone and opened a can of wriggles with this topic :blink:

I have no favoured option be it LR, Toyo, Nissan, Jeep. When i priced up Ashcrofts componants i priced up with new diffs/Arb and them building them up. O.k i could do it myself. But for the small fee to have them fitted, i decided it would be money well spent.

My interest in other Axles is purely down to what i can get for the lowest budget. But the axles must be tough and worth the time and effort to upgrade to. All options given here are useful in assertaining my choice, but its got to be cost effective.

I agree with the statement "UK LR owners are blinkered to one axle" But i think we all know why, and the reasons have been aired on this thread. However, i think in time just like Mog axles. Jap axles are going to start creeping under Land Rovers. But the trend has'nt kicked of yet! Now if the likes of "Dollthelw" gets his hands stuck into sticking a pair under a truck, then i believe you may see more follow? Oh great master of Grinder Fu...show us the road less travelled :hysterical:

My Truck has to be always on a tight budget, but how i and most of us outway cost, is by doing the Grafting oursleves. Cup of tea in one hand and Mallet in tuther :)

You can buy disk's in Aus for $30 for cruiser or GQ so with the exchange rate that's what, 10quid.

It always makes me laugh when people say the are keeping it Rover and then proceed to fit MD's, Ashcroft KAM etc. They fit a rover housing but the are NOT rover. So the only bit that is rover is the housing, and generally that will have been strenghtened anyway.

A nissan GQ or GU/GR front diff will bolt straight into a RR/Disco/Fender using the Nissan lower arms, no mods to the chassis at all. You need to make up a panhard and steering arm but that's it. You don't even need to change the coil pads if you don't want to (I did personally as I wanted to run rover springs).

Pics of GQ front in my Rangie

Img1985.jpg

Img1986.jpg

Img1984.jpg

Img1983.jpg

For the rear is is better to run an 80 series than the GQ. Having run both in the same truck, and blown up 3 different tailshafts with the GQ, including wideangle uni ones. If it is just for a comp rig the GQ is fine, but if it is road driven regulary the vibs will annoy you. With 80 series rear, for the tail shaft is stock rover and just redrill the flanges. There is more work putting the rear diff in, but it is well worth it IMHO.

The other thing with the Nissan & Toy swap is you get 4.1's as standard.

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Cannot write from experiance. But from what the OZ forums mention. They seem to run 35's locked without trouble?

Yes, on some axles……….. not all have birfiled CV’s as standard ……… these folk know their yota’s just like we know Rovers and the yanks know their Jeeps ;) …………. You gotta go more than skin deep to find out the REAL truth :ph34r:

Ian

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With a lot of Jap axles you would be hard pushed to run locked 35’s all day long without upgrades to CV’s and shafts

Ian

That is the buggest load of bull I have ever heard. I have gone 12 years in GQ's and broken 1 CV, and that was due to a bent steering stop.

And the smallist tyres I run are 315x75x16 and have often run 38's.

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You can buy disk's in Aus for $30 for cruiser or GQ so with the exchange rate that's what, 10quid.

Hello Maggot .......... good to see you here from outer limits ........... I hope you stick around. ;)

Yeah, but we can buy Rover discs for a tenner ............. can you ?

Tomorrow I'll price up Cruiser & GQ parts , just to see what the actual availability is like here ........ it was grim the last time I looked. :(

Given all the choices, last time I was over there (last Year) I wish I could have brought back a troopy with me ............. I thrashed the hell out of one and it never let me down............. maybe I was lucky :D

Ian

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That is the buggest load of bull I have ever heard. I have gone 12 years in GQ's and broken 1 CV, and that was due to a bent steering stop.

And the smallist tyres I run are 315x75x16 and have often run 38's.

Welcome to LR4x4 Maggot4x4 :) You have been replying to a thread on OuterLimits4x4 in the Rover section B) Outer limits username "Mudman&Crawler"

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