Newbie: Disco 6x6 from Spain

[o_teunico]

Hi all!

This is my first message in this forum.

My name is Rodrigo, but everybody calls me Téunico. I´m from Lugo, NW Spain. I started my Land Rover madness when I was 13 thanks to TV and those Camel Trophy films. With 19 came the first Landy: a spanish built 88" Diesel Series IIIA Santana. Later a Cazorla (Santana made top of the range straight six 109" SW), 109" Series I with hearse body...and then disaster...our beloved 88", called Seferino, was rolled over in 2004. Since then no Landy for me, but my brother bought himself a Disco Tdi (not running now because of timing belt failure), 109" armoured SIIIA Santana (money carrier) and a 2500DC Series V Santana.

That broken engine 200 Tdi Disco has been offered to me for free, so...why not transform it in a 6x6?

Lets see pics...

As it is now

Imagine a bobtailed one with shortned front end...

...and extra axle between original ones and steering rear axle.

Has this been done ever? Closest thing I have seen are those ESARCO/HUGO things. I´ve been measuring and bodywork can be done, but not sure if mid axle will fit under t-case.

If I make it in the typical way(you know, just add an extra axle at back), what turning diameter can I expect? (Any TACR2A owners over here?). How to improve original brake servo and master cylinder to cope with six brake discs?

Traction could be given with an extra divorced LT230, in the ESARCO 8x8 way. Standard LT230 powering axles 1 and 3 and the PTO driven LT230 powering axle 2 and powered trailer. That extra LT230,s PTO could even drive a GOD WINCH/VIKING WINCH.

Thanks for your comments and ideas!

[FridgeFreezer]

Welcome!

This is one of the best first-posts ever

[Scooby Jim]

Lol welcome, you may have a few issues with actually driving it lol.

This has been done tho.

[luke keeper of badger]

and this

[o_teunico]

Thanks Fridge and Scooby for your replies!

I knew the Merzouga Disco (just a TACR2A chassis with Disco body). It´s tooooooooooooooo long for my needs. I want the traction of a 6x6 with the turning diameter of a 80" and the overall length of a 90. I´m asking too much?

High speed cornering could be "fun". In Portugal the Army ordered some HUGO 6x6 and found that on heavy foot braking it was transformed in a very short wheelbase 4x4.

Another option for a not too big 6x6 could be the Bill van Snorkel design: less than 80" between axles 1 and 2 and load sharing device for axles 2 and 3, but don´t know what turning diamenter expect.

I will like to thak Bill the creation of such a great vehicle. When I was a teen a poster I made with a enlarged set of pics of his landy crawling over a fallen tree (taken from the book Land Rover Series II&IIA 1958/1971-Brookland Books) decorated my bedroom and his rig was the last thing I saw every night before sleeping.

[o_teunico]

Thanks Luke for the video. I was just writing about that same car when you posted your reply!

[o_teunico]

Three axles with fixed middle one and steered front and rear was taken from the soviet ZIL167

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4HgLrfhmwGU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[o_teunico]

Same layout as ZIL can be seen in spanish built ENASA BMR

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EK6CohK0l8M?list=PLMKLJVNrDfk7F88iNhFNaPDofTqGanOJI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Phil Hancock]

Lol welcome, you may have a few issues with actually driving it lol.

This has been done tho.

That looks like the 6 wheel disco that was built on a Range Rover fire truck rolling chassis, the body was made from 1 x 5dr shell & 2 x 3dr shells. 1 of the 3dr shells was off our 200disco. The builder was a chap called Trevor Adler.

[o_teunico]

Thanks Phil for your info on six wheeled Disco.

Surfing the net I´ve found this awesome rig (sorry, not a Landy)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZkpeOzAIZ-M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[o_teunico]

More photoshop for a Bill van Snorkel design adapted to a Disco

http://img824.imageshack.us/i/discocastorbobtail6x6bi.jpg/'>

Cons: b post needs to be modified (seat belt attached to it, quite probably impossible to made road legal), none of the windows going down, second seat row reduced to two people and with quite bad access.

Why my youtube inserts don´t work?

[bishbosh]

You are going to run into problems with the middle axle in your original proposal as the chassis is going to get in the way big time. If you look at a standard chassis it rises up at both ends to get clearance over the axles.

for your idea you would need to build a new chassis with strait rails front to back which will raise all your bodywork up in the air.

I would follow Bill's route with a shortened chassis (reduce the existing 100" wheelbase). you can then choose either a walking beam or two independent axles. the latter would enable rear steer. Not sure if you can effectively do steering with a walking beam as your steering lock would be heavily constrained.

What ever you decide, good luck and keep us posted!

[o_teunico]

Hi Bishbosh!

Fortunately my XXL size brain developed a method that eliminates the need of a straight chassis.

Front and rear coil seats are lowered (this kind of suspension lift is used on Defenders made by IceLandrovers) so they will be aligned with new ones added for mid axle.

At the moment have no idea of how A frame and trailing arms for mid axle coul be located without interfering with other two axles.

A pic of the idea (dimmensions are incorrect for my Disco, its a Disco 2 chassis the one of the original drawing)

[o_teunico]

More photoshop, now on a ESARCO 8x8 drivetrain. "wolf" short nose diffs could be used for strength and better U-joint angles.

[Nigelw]

Just an idea but why not use an independent suspended axle in the middle? It would also allow you to have both front and mid axles steering?

At least that would allow you to use and modify the Disco chassis as opposed building from scratch, also it would be very difficult to get all the hardware for a live axle in such a closed space, also you would be able to modify the diff housing and fabricate a through drive from mid to rear axles.

Just another take on it.

[o_teunico]

Hi Dieseldog69!

Suspended mid axle was one of my firts ideas, but quite early abandoned it because it wil reduce vehicles payload and overload original ground touching axles.

Have been reading other treads about 6x6 and 8x8 in this and other forums and it´s clear that any design with rocker/load sharing device will be better off-road than designs using not linked axles.

Bill´s design was great, but such design in a Disco will requiere more chassis work than I intended and body will be less practical for everyday use.

My mid axle design could be made rocker-like type using linked air bags instead of coils, but these will be less dependable an far more expensive.

Maybe some mechanical links between mobile coil seats/buckets...

[Landy-Novice]

may i ask, why you want a 6x6 disco?

for off roading? although i suspect a 4x4 disco with lockers + 33" tires will out perform a 6x6 with standard diffs and will of course be cheaper of you doing it for a novelty item?

if your really going to go through with converting a vehicle to 6x6, why not use something more suitable like a 110 or 130? 1, because its has a 30" longer wheelbase and 2, if you get a pick up, you have less of the body to modify.

jmho.

[o_teunico]

Landy-Novice, the idea of a mid-axled 6x6 is for less ground pressure (less chance to get stuck), much reduced turning diamenter and greater traction.

I was amazed how good the Disco was off-road with just some small 205R16 mud tyres. Even with big plough style tow pack fitted. It was much better than our previous 88" with +3" suspension and 32" tyres.

A locked 4x4 Disco with 33s may be good, but then imagine a 6x6 one with 3 lockers and some 36s.

I want a Disco because it´s the rig I have been given for free and because it´s body is more practical for family and daily runabout use.

[elbekko]

It may be easier to just add another axle in the back? Extend the chassis a bit, trayback/pickup the rear. This'll allow you to build from where the chassis comes up to go over the axle, and just extend it straight back there.

That should help with prop angles too.

[o_teunico]

That suspended axle idea has resurrected my "half-track" project that I sketched some years ago.

It has nothihg to do with Centaur style half tracked Landys.

It would be just one chassis width track under t-box. This track will act as a skid plate and, when vehicle´s ramp-over angle was reached, will help the car crawling over the obstacle. This could be achived by car´s wheels pushing the car or by the track´s own motion, beeing obtained from PTO, hydraulic or electric motor.

Just an old-school pen and paper sketch I have made just minutes ago

And another one for the inter-linked coil suspension that will enable bogie style performance off-road

[o_teunico]

Elbekko, that will be easier, but I will end with a nearly six metre long Disco! I want a small (say 4 metre) long one.

[elbekko]

Fair enough, but that'll be pretty hard to package I think. The extra transfer box etc will take up a lot of space in the chassis, and you may end up with a fuel tank inside the car and such.

[o_teunico]

Internal fuel tank has always been in the list, as it´s intended to be a bobbed Disco, and no rear overhang means no room for fuel tank (at least a stock Disco one)

[Nigelw]

maybe this principle appeals?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXixfte7ZdU&feature=related

My thought of the independent mid axle was to fit a front axle from an Isuzu trooper or such, where the diff and shaft tubes could be fabbed into the chassis from the back of the transfer box via a spud shaft and then the wish bones would be framed and extend down from the chassis rails, will try to sketch it and show but this would allow a custom through drive to power the rear axle and also the mid axle could be staarable too.....

[o_teunico]

Mmmmmmmmmmmm...like it! It seems that two wheel stubs axles have been mounted in a rocker and then the rocker has been bolted to a single axle casing. Simple and effective.

Independent susp. front axle used at middle of chassis will certainly ease thing: no trailing arms, no A frame, no up-down moving diff that exceeds short propshafts angles...but wheel articulation will be far less than that of a beam axle, and I should find a same ratio as others diff.