dirtydiesel Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 What if any, are the consequences of driving a "green lane" that is not actually a legal right of way? Who would be prosecuting me? And what exactly would the charge be? And does anyone know if mamtor (derbyshire) is a legal right of way still, as i was kind of photographed a lot driving up it on monday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 the charge is driving a motor vehicle anywhere but a road I believe. As for outcome, I think it can be as harsh as confiscation of the vehicle, but that is repeat offences only I think. Searching for the above law will probably tell you. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I'm not 100% sure but I don't think the old Mam tor raod is still legal to drive. Turbocharger might remember what the out come was last time this was discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 You can only be prosecuted by the Land Owner (council) and must be caught and arrested by the law. The law must state your misdemeanor first and give you a chance to say "Sorry Occifer, I shall henceforth remove myself faster than a fast thing by the way that I arrived. Then nothing can happen unless you have commited criminal damage (BIG GREY AREA!) If you say 'go way mr copper' he or she can nick you for trespass - you will be cautioned Do it again and you will get an ASBO Do it again and you will be looking for a new vehicle as the old one will be taken away and either crushed or auctioned off. That's about the jist of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 http://www.suffolk.police.uk/Useful+Inform...ghts+Of+Way.htm has some good information, although just coz it is a police site I wouldn't neccesarily assume that it is correct! Also doesn't have much info about penalty though. check out the final bit about who can stop you - technically if a rambler gets antsy with with you could take his name and address and report him for obstruction of the highway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Carnt give you legal advice, But the police have powers to take the vehicle the FIRST time. No need for warnings. Have done for over 12 months. As for prosecuting you , it can be the land owner, not the tenant, for treaspassing for one and theres lots of others that can be taken into account depending on what you are doing. The police will only do you for motoring or public order offences. One thing to remember is you only have to give you name and address to a policeman in uniform and no one else. Not even a CID officer. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted September 14, 2006 Author Share Posted September 14, 2006 It doesn't sound all bad, i've often wondered what the repercusions would be. But i'll proberbly drive it again next time i'm up that way. Interestingly while i was out i also drove stanage, and a really nice job has been done of repairing the redmires end, but no attempt has been made to fence off the tracks that are along side the lane on (and into) the moorland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 But i'll proberbly drive it again next time i'm up that way. Um...if Mam Tor is closed, that's not exactly helping our cause, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 the cause is lost isn't it Geoff? All that's left is militant action... . You have to remember that to stop illegal laning they made more lanes illegal to lane. Not sure how that helped, but I'm sure some stats somewhere show it worked. Perhaps number of bobble hat complaints have reduced or something. Not sure that illegal laning will help or hinder any cause we may have. But i am feeling a tad pessimistic about everything at the moment :-{ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted September 14, 2006 Author Share Posted September 14, 2006 Um...if Mam Tor is closed, that's not exactly helping our cause, is it? As steve said, We haven't really got a cause, have we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 the cause is lost isn't it Geoff? All that's left is militant action... . You have to remember that to stop illegal laning they made more lanes illegal to lane. Not sure how that helped, but I'm sure some stats somewhere show it worked. Perhaps number of bobble hat complaints have reduced or something. Not sure that illegal laning will help or hinder any cause we may have. But i am feeling a tad pessimistic about everything at the moment :-{ This is the way UK politics works: You can't stop lawbreakers so stop the leagal ones! Firstly it looks like they have done something, remember to an Anti it's all illegal. Next it's easy to police, if you could not tell before what was legal or not, now it all is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 It feels like I should have a counter argument to that, but I can't think of one that holds water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Mam Tor is subject to a TRO from the gate at the top of the layby, down to the 'No Motor Vehicles' sign quite a long way down the hill. Exception is made for access to Mam Tor Farm from the bottom end. However, since there are no signs at the top end (from the layby) and the gate is not locked, how are you supposed to know about the TRO? If you drove down the road proceeding as a normal motorist might (if he ignored the 6ft steps in the road, cravasses etc) then 3-point turned at an arbitary point, say 6ft before the signs at the bottom (which point in the other direction such that you haven't seen them) and drove back up to the layby, you'd simply be exercising your right to pass and re-pass with no knowledge of any existing traffic orders. My guess is, you'll end up in someone's photo album, in the same way that I have pictures of someone unicycling down a footpath on Snowdon. Unlawful, but not illegal and having novelty value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 The cause isn't lost, we still have hundreds of miles of good lanes left - just some of them need a bit of work to find, confirm and drive. The prime reason we had a fight to lose was thoughtless idiots p*ss*ng off non off road types and councils by tresspas, illegal use, stupid driving practices blah blah blah We are lucky enough to have almost all the UCR's left, councils who refuse to recognise the dual useage clause, councils who are fighting to keep lanes open to avoid the partial collapse of tourism, councils who are happy to let us do the work they can't afford to do. We are in this situation because we failed to band together soon enough or well enough. If I see someone driving a TRO delibrately, I will report them to anyone and everyone who will listen and stand up in court as a witness. That way it's one less idiot spoiling what's left of one of my favourite pastimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Best way of getting "new" lanes is to get a copy of the List Of Streets from the Highways Dept and look on a map. There are some on the LOS that are not on the maps. Lost Lanes so to speak, these are fine to drive and some would have not been used for years!!! If everyone dose this you will be suprised how many that can be found. I know of a few around here, one I plann to do as soon as my winch is working , just in case. It has not been used for years, its a long one as well. But I will do it down hill to start as its easer to do. If I see someone driving a TRO delibrately, I will report them to anyone and everyone who will listen and stand up in court as a witness. That way it's one less idiot spoiling what's left of one of my favourite pastimes. I have reported people before and will do it again. As for a TRO, if it is not signed correctly then it is not a legal TRO. Also even if it is signed correctly then read it and take a close look at he dates on the sign!!! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 where and how would some one get said list Paul? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 where and how would some one get said list Paul? Email the Highways DEPT of the county council. You will be surprsied on how many can be found. If its on the list of streets its leagal to drive. If it looks like it has not been used for years then walk it before driving it. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 i thought if there wasnt a TRO notice displayed then the TRO wasnt valid? i can think of one lane (near boxhill) which only has a TRO in one direction as far as im aware. so the TRO notice is only at one end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 i thought if there wasnt a TRO notice displayed then the TRO wasnt valid? i can think of one lane (near boxhill) which only has a TRO in one direction as far as im aware. so the TRO notice is only at one end. Yes. If there is no sign or notice at the end you start from its not a valid TRO. Thats why I said read the notices as sometimes the council forget to update them and if out of dade then they are not valid either. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 thanx for clearing that up Paul. do 'one way' TROs exist or did i imagine hearing about that? im under the impression that the exist to make some lanes only driveable downhill. obviously most chances of damage are when climbing & needing more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 thanx for clearing that up Paul. do 'one way' TROs exist or did i imagine hearing about that? im under the impression that the exist to make some lanes only driveable downhill. obviously most chances of damage are when climbing & needing more power. No "one way" TROs do not exist, but unless signed correctly then they are not valid TROs. I think some lanes can/could be made one way as it would be better than loseing them. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Email the Highways DEPT of the county council. You will be surprsied on how many can be found. If its on the list of streets its leagal to drive. If it looks like it has not been used for years then walk it before driving it. Paul Paul Is there any legal obligation on councils to provide this information in written/printed form? I have been and inspected LOSs and definitive maps at council offices but I have always found that telephoning/writing for information which would require actual work on the part of the council employee is useless. Can one make a request under the freedom of information act or something similar? I viewed the LOS for Monmouthshire a few months ago and it was a large (A2?), ancient book of maps which really looked like it belonged in a museum! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 The cause isn't lost, we still have hundreds of miles of good lanes left - just some of them need a bit of work to find, confirm and drive.The prime reason we had a fight to lose was thoughtless idiots p*ss*ng off non off road types and councils by tresspas, illegal use, stupid driving practices blah blah blah We are lucky enough to have almost all the UCR's left, councils who refuse to recognise the dual useage clause, councils who are fighting to keep lanes open to avoid the partial collapse of tourism, councils who are happy to let us do the work they can't afford to do. We are in this situation because we failed to band together soon enough or well enough. If I see someone driving a TRO delibrately, I will report them to anyone and everyone who will listen and stand up in court as a witness. That way it's one less idiot spoiling what's left of one of my favourite pastimes. Wot he said. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Some will send a copy out if you ask, if not take a digital camra with you and take photos of it. Not sure about doing it under the freedom of information act, but I will ask someone. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Got this back. LoS is generally a hard copy but some authorities have it digitized. You can go to the offices and view it and if you ask nicely (or are left alone) can get digital photos of it. I don’t think you can request a copy under FoI but it’s worth a try and you may have to pay for it but they have to tell you how much first. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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