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Boydie

Engine Rebuild & Blueprinting

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Hey Boydie

Just from scanning Aussie forums, it seems like you guys are a lot more geared up for sort of personalised ad hoc engineering, like you've outlined in this thread? - is it just me or do you guys have quite easy access to engineering shops geared up for engine modification?

Mav

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1 hour ago, Maverik said:

Hey Boydie

Just from scanning Aussie forums, it seems like you guys are a lot more geared up for sort of personalised ad hoc engineering, like you've outlined in this thread? - is it just me or do you guys have quite easy access to engineering shops geared up for engine modification?

Mav

Not something i have thought about but yeah there does seem to be a lot of businesses around that rebuild/ modify engines.

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20 hours ago, Boydie said:

I change the engine oil, oil and fuel filters every 10,000 kilometres (6,000 miles) I just use a good quality mineral oil, the 300Tdi doesn't need full or part synthetic.  

The gearbox (s) and axles get their oil replaced every 40,000 and the clutch and brake fluids get replaced every two years. or when the moisture content requires it, 

OK, nearly the same as my TDi's service frequencies; I just stretch boxes & diffs to 50 000 km

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Some years ago I bought a 300TDi engine that was seized and then left in the back garden under some old carpet. The only work I didn't do myself was the rebore, injectors and injector pump check.  The engine looked and ran like brand new when it was finished.

 

300TDi engine 004 (Small).jpg

300TDi engine 005 (Small).jpg

300TDi (Small).jpg

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12 hours ago, Les Henson said:

Some years ago I bought a 300TDi engine that was seized and then left in the back garden under some old carpet. The only work I didn't do myself was the rebore, injectors and injector pump check.  The engine looked and ran like brand new when it was finished.

 

300TDi (Small).jpg

An object of sheer beauty !:rolleyes:

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For anyone that thinks that completely rebuilding an entire engine is daunting, then the fact is it's not. You need a few specialist tools, such as dial guage, mag mount, micrometer, feeler guage, and engineer or printers ruler. I used genuine or better parts, but you can buy suitable cheaper parts that don't have to come in a blue box :) :). Most of the work is cleaning, checking, painting, etc.

 

 

Les

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Sabre, beautiful job.  The two things I did with mine were to dump the mechanical fuel lift pump and vacuum pump.  I installed an electric high volume unit next to the sedimenter on the rear chassis rail - instant priming of any replaced fuel filter, and an electric vacuum pump, You would be amazed at how quiet the engine is without those two ticking away and the Wabco vacuum pump is a carp design whereas an electric vac pump will turn off once the correct vacuum is achieved, if you're driving on a freeway it's not needed whereas the Wabco pump runs constantly.

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10 hours ago, Les Henson said:

For anyone that thinks that completely rebuilding an entire engine is daunting, then the fact is it's not. You need a few specialist tools, such as dial guage, mag mount, micrometer, feeler guage, and engineer or printers ruler. I used genuine or better parts, but you can buy suitable cheaper parts that don't have to come in a blue box :) :). Most of the work is cleaning, checking, painting, etc.

 

 

Les

Les I'm on the cusp of delving into a "spare" 200tdi that I've got... you might have just pushed me over said cusp, I've been debating a long time buying a turner short engine, but they're so £££ its always put me off.

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As Les says, they are nothing rocket science, especially when talking about TDIs and Rover V8s which have their roots way back in the 50s....

Parts are pretty cheap, and every machine shops knows them for the bits you can't do yourself. For bits you are unsure of there are books and good resources on the internet out there too... 

Take your time and think of buying tools just like buying parts for the job, only they can be used again and again! 

Good luck :)

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I downloaded and printed off this manual - http://landroverresource.com/docs/300TDi_Overhaul_Manual.pdf

It shows accurate line drawing, torque settings, how to dismantle and check various components, etc, etc.
It's what I used to do the whole job.

 

 

"Piston skimmed by 0.0001mm?  How do you even measure that "

Just out of curiosity, why did you need to have the piston skimmed?

 

 

Les

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Interesting points about the fuel and vacuum pump, Iain

I don't think I'd bother to change the lift pump - simply because its so easy to change on that rare occasion it fails. But the vacuum pump... Although obviously I'm talking 200 which is a far better base engine than the 300...

I've been looking into an electric water pump just recently - quite like the idea of that

 

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The vacuum pump on ABS equipped vehicles only runs the EGR valve.  My RRC has one, which needed replacement because the end plate rivets stretched.  The EGR was disabled by the previous owner, and though I have cleaned it out for reinstatement on the Turner Eng rebuilt engine, I may just refit it over the blanking plate and remove the guts from the vacuum pump so it all looks correct (concourse restoration is what I hope to achieve) but no longer makes noise and can no longer present a risk of oil leaks.

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On 9/29/2016 at 11:38 PM, Boydie said:

Sabre, beautiful job.  The two things I did with mine were to dump the mechanical fuel lift pump and vacuum pump.  I installed an electric high volume unit next to the sedimenter on the rear chassis rail - instant priming of any replaced fuel filter, and an electric vacuum pump, You would be amazed at how quiet the engine is without those two ticking away and the Wabco vacuum pump is a carp design whereas an electric vac pump will turn off once the correct vacuum is achieved, if you're driving on a freeway it's not needed whereas the Wabco pump runs constantly.

Boydie, I am very interested in the electrical vacuum pump. Who makes them ? Are they universal ?

I would dearly like to chuck out the mechanical one which is nearly always one of the main contributors towards my oily garage floor

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I got mine off EBay, it's made from a billet of alloy and has an auto cut out vacuum switch built into it. They are normally fitted to high lift camshaft drag cars and racers that are unable to generate sufficient vacuum.  

The unit in total is around 3" high x 3" wide x 3" deep. I connected the intake connection to the brake booster with vacuum hose and the discharge connection to a small hose with a made up foam rubber "stocking" to reduce exhaust noise. 

It came with four little rubber isolation feet which I discarded, on my Disco it's mounted just below the brake booster on the inner wheel arch and wired to the FIP Fuel cutoff solenoid - as is the fuel pump.  Full vacuum is established inside 2-3 seconds at which point it turns off and it comes on instantly the brake is applied.  

When I ordered it I paid for a spare rubber diaphragm but after seeing it I could easily make some out of an old inner tube with a wad punch set.  Noise wise, yes, I can just hear it running over the engine as its constantly coming on and off in traffic when you're using the brake, I dont think the four little rubber buffers would reduce the noise and any and in any case the connection to the brake booster is now less than 200mm long and its location is very tight.  

The fuel pump is a high lift, high volume solid state pump, it comes on with the ignition and supplies a lot more fuel that the FIP requires, purging a new fuel filter is a matter of turning on the ignition and the fuel is flowing out of the filter vent screw inside 3-4 seconds. The standard alloy bowl sedimenter was replaced with a aftermarket filter/sedimenter unit so that the fuel to the fuel pump is filtered.  It has the added advantage of having a clear bowl so any water can be easily seen.  

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On 9/28/2016 at 6:06 PM, Maverik said:

Hey Boydie

Just from scanning Aussie forums, it seems like you guys are a lot more geared up for sort of personalised ad hoc engineering, like you've outlined in this thread? - is it just me or do you guys have quite easy access to engineering shops geared up for engine modification?

Mav

I do have a "mate" who has a local engine re-building workshop, 75% of the work I did in my own cave, the machining and centrifugal component balancing he did, another mate welded up the defunct water galleries in the block. The block itself was shot peened in the water jackets to remove any casting burrs etc.to improve water flow and a fair bit of residue casting sand and chemically cleaned at a specialist. 

My next project engine which is sitting in the man cave will be done in two pack flame red with the exhaust manifold ceramically coated in gold just for the hell of it :D and it may well end up in my Disco. 

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19 hours ago, Boydie said:

I got mine off EBay, it's made from a billet of alloy and has an auto cut out vacuum switch built into it. They are normally fitted to high lift camshaft drag cars and racers that are unable to generate sufficient vacuum.  

The unit in total is around 3" high x 3" wide x 3" deep. I connected the intake connection to the brake booster with vacuum hose and the discharge connection to a small hose with a made up foam rubber "stocking" to reduce exhaust noise. 

It came with four little rubber isolation feet which I discarded, on my Disco it's mounted just below the brake booster on the inner wheel arch and wired to the FIP Fuel cutoff solenoid - as is the fuel pump.  Full vacuum is established inside 2-3 seconds at which point it turns off and it comes on instantly the brake is applied.  

When I ordered it I paid for a spare rubber diaphragm but after seeing it I could easily make some out of an old inner tube with a wad punch set.  Noise wise, yes, I can just hear it running over the engine as its constantly coming on and off in traffic when you're using the brake, I dont think the four little rubber buffers would reduce the noise and any and in any case the connection to the brake booster is now less than 200mm long and its location is very tight.  

The fuel pump is a high lift, high volume solid state pump, it comes on with the ignition and supplies a lot more fuel that the FIP requires, purging a new fuel filter is a matter of turning on the ignition and the fuel is flowing out of the filter vent screw inside 3-4 seconds. The standard alloy bowl sedimenter was replaced with a aftermarket filter/sedimenter unit so that the fuel to the fuel pump is filtered.  It has the added advantage of having a clear bowl so any water can be easily seen.  

Thanks Boydie, excellent information that I will put on my Disco "wish-list"

I have been contemplating the electric fuel pump option for some time, but thought a low volume pump should deliver enough juice for a 2.5 litre engine. But if high volume works on your Disco, that is the road that I will go

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On 9/30/2016 at 9:05 PM, Les Henson said:

I downloaded and printed off this manual - http://landroverresource.com/docs/300TDi_Overhaul_Manual.pdf

It shows accurate line drawing, torque settings, how to dismantle and check various components, etc, etc.
It's what I used to do the whole job.

 

 

"Piston skimmed by 0.0001mm?  How do you even measure that "

Just out of curiosity, why did you need to have the piston skimmed?

 

 

Les

One zero too many :blush: and just to get all four pistons exactly the same height from the gudgeon to the crown, the same as using wet and dry to rub/file the skirts to get them the exact same weight, no real reason other than being annally retentive and having too much time on my hands 

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You took a whole micron off just to get the four pistons the same???!!!  That is nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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For us Aussies, the VE Commodore has an electric vac pump and are starting to turn up at wrecking yards quite cheap now.

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14 hours ago, ejparrott said:

You took a whole micron off just to get the four pistons the same???!!!  That is nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, it was totally and annally retentive.  The whole exercise was just to see if it could be done. The same as weighing the pistons after and rubbing the skirts down to get the exact same weight using an electronic chemical scale that measured down to 0.001 gram, there was no real gain by doing it other than the fun of building the "perfect" engine.

I once had a Datsun (Nissan ) 1400cc rally/race engine that I scored from Japan, every tiny bit of excess material had been ground off the block (externally and internally) with a tool grinder to reduce the total block weight by reducing it by some 15 kilos, it would have taken whoever did it weeks to get the block down to that final finished weight, totally within the rules as there was nothing in the specifications that said the engine block had to be a certain weight. 

Would I ever do it again ?  possibly yes with say a Ford 1800 BDA Rally engine or a Mitsubishi 1600cc Twin Cam (a very rare beast) but never again with a 300 Tdi.  

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On 9/30/2016 at 9:05 PM, Les Henson said:

I downloaded and printed off this manual - http://landroverresource.com/docs/300TDi_Overhaul_Manual.pdf

It shows accurate line drawing, torque settings, how to dismantle and check various components, etc, etc.
It's what I used to do the whole job.

 

 

"Piston skimmed by 0.0001mm?  How do you even measure that "

Just out of curiosity, why did you need to have the piston skimmed?

 

 

Les

Les,   The really big Caterpillar and Kenworth truck engines made in Mexico have their crankshafts optically / laser measured for journal diameter and the block for cylinder alignment, apparently they measure down to 0.0001mm, I guess thats why those mega-litre straight six diesel engines last for a million kilometres.  

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12 hours ago, Boydie said:

Yeah, it was totally and annally retentive.  The whole exercise was just to see if it could be done. The same as weighing the pistons after and rubbing the skirts down to get the exact same weight using an electronic chemical scale that measured down to 0.001 gram, there was no real gain by doing it other than the fun of building the "perfect" engine.

I once had a Datsun (Nissan ) 1400cc rally/race engine that I scored from Japan, every tiny bit of excess material had been ground off the block (externally and internally) with a tool grinder to reduce the total block weight by reducing it by some 15 kilos, it would have taken whoever did it weeks to get the block down to that final finished weight, totally within the rules as there was nothing in the specifications that said the engine block had to be a certain weight. 

Would I ever do it again ?  possibly yes with say a Ford 1800 BDA Rally engine or a Mitsubishi 1600cc Twin Cam (a very rare beast) but never again with a 300 Tdi.  

I like the effort that you put into it. It appeals to my anal mind! :)

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