Engine Rebuild & Blueprinting

[honitonhobbit]

I like that whole "take a good engine and make it nails hard" concept - like simply buying a 617 Turbo and changing the oil

[Sabre]

On 10/1/2016 at 2:05 AM, Boydie said:

I do have a "mate" who has a local engine re-building workshop, 75% of the work I did in my own cave, the machining and centrifugal component balancing he did, another mate welded up the defunct water galleries in the block. The block itself was shot peened in the water jackets to remove any casting burrs etc.to improve water flow and a fair bit of residue casting sand and chemically cleaned at a specialist. 

My next project engine which is sitting in the man cave will be done in two pack flame red with the exhaust manifold ceramically coated in gold just for the hell of it  and it may well end up in my Disco. 

 

Boydie, I suspect you guys in Aus might have day temperatures very similiar to us in South Africa. Does your Disco run hot when towing a trailer ? Have you still got the aircon radiator fitted ? Will the welding of the defunct water gallaries assist engine cooling ?

My Disco runs OK when it does not tow, but as soon as I hitch my bush trailer, and have some stuff on the roof rack, I need to watch the water temp (seperate VDO gauge) very closely. This is with a clean radiator, cleaned out space between radiator and aircon, and closed-up by-pass in the radiator

[Boydie]

Sabre,

I've never had a camper trailer fitted, it's on the bucket list but so far we have managed with the Disco as is, no rear seating, camping under the awning under the stars.  

The air conditioning condenser has been relocated to the underside of the roof rack c/w cooling fans, it works perfectly and allows more air into the radiator.  

My plastic front grille has been drilled to allow greater air flow, both pics are in my gallery.  

No, welding up the top of the water galleries 1-2, 2-3, & 3-4 does not affect the cooling, all three are "dead ends" as are no corresponding waterways in the cylinder head ---  all it does is delete the narrow space between the galleries and the cylinders.

I dont agree with closing off the radiator bypass, you could end up with a air lock and no way of removing it - thats what the "by-pass" is there for.  

My radiator is a 3 pass 1/2' core, the standard core is 2 pass 3/8" core, (some export models had a 3 pass 3/8" core) mine is a full copper core out of a Mack Dyna truck cut down to suit and is far more efficient than the standard core and any good radiator service place should be able to fit the same core as mine to your copper headers. I still retain the original thermo mechanical fan, no mods needed, it fits without any risk of hitting the face of the radiator however be aware of rhinos.   My temp never goes above 95*C even on 45*C ambient day's driving over soft sand dunes, revving in low range with very low tyre pressures.  My normal engine temp is around 85-95*C. 

I'm going to try Evans waterless coolant just to see how it goes, not having any radiator pressure can only be a positive thing. 

[Sabre]

On 10/10/2016 at 5:33 AM, Boydie said:

Sabre,

I've never had a camper trailer fitted, it's on the bucket list but so far we have managed with the Disco as is, no rear seating, camping under the awning under the stars.  

The air conditioning condenser has been relocated to the underside of the roof rack c/w cooling fans, it works perfectly and allows more air into the radiator.  

My plastic front grille has been drilled to allow greater air flow, both pics are in my gallery.  

No, welding up the top of the water galleries 1-2, 2-3, & 3-4 does not affect the cooling, all three are "dead ends" as are no corresponding waterways in the cylinder head ---  all it does is delete the narrow space between the galleries and the cylinders.

I dont agree with closing off the radiator bypass, you could end up with a air lock and no way of removing it - thats what the "by-pass" is there for.  

My radiator is a 3 pass 1/2' core, the standard core is 2 pass 3/8" core, (some export models had a 3 pass 3/8" core) mine is a full copper core out of a Mack Dyna truck cut down to suit and is far more efficient than the standard core and any good radiator service place should be able to fit the same core as mine to your copper headers. I still retain the original thermo mechanical fan, no mods needed, it fits without any risk of hitting the face of the radiator however be aware of rhinos.   My temp never goes above 95*C even on 45*C ambient day's driving over soft sand dunes, revving in low range with very low tyre pressures.  My normal engine temp is around 85-95*C. 

I'm going to try Evans waterless coolant just to see how it goes, not having any radiator pressure can only be a positive thing. 

Shot, thanks for the info

At the risk of going off-topic, is there a link to a description of the aircon condenser's move to the roof rack ? Very good idea

[Boydie]

Sabre,

I relocated the condenser myself.  The first thing was to have the system pumped down. I than had to have four brass fittings turned to match the standard ones. These go at each end of the extension pipes. 

You will need these brass fittings,

A blowtorch able to melt blue tip silver solder.

A refrigeration vaccuum pump (I hired mine) and gauges.

A 3/8 & 1/2" hand copper pipe bending tool. 

Normal hand tools, cordless drill etc.

Silver solder (blue tip) and flux paste.

 The pipes required are 3/8 & 1/2" heavy duty refrigeration copper pipe, get at least 4 metres of each size. Also have some straight joiners, 45 and 90 degree elbows.

Remove and relocate the condenser and its fans from the front of the car to the underside of your roof rack, position is so that the angled curve of the roof forces air to pass up and through the condenser.

Relocate the filter dryer from the front of the condenser to vertically next to the driver side battery, the existing refrigeration tube will fit it, take care not to kink it. the compressor discharge hose will twist around to the new location of the two new pipes. the liquid line (38') will enter the wheel arch (fit a thick grummet to protect the pipes from rubbing) and pass it through to behind the driver side headlamp and connect to a NEW filter dryer. The discharge (hot gas 1/2") will pass through the wheel arch in the same opening, both copper pipes pass up the outside of the drivers "A"  column and connect to the condenser. The liquid line needs to be extended from the opposite side of the condenser.  Reconnect the condenser fans to the wining loom.

When all connections have been made attach the gauges and evacuate the system,Ii had mine on vacuum for well over 24 hours.  Go to your local auto airconditioning company and have them recharge the system with refrigerant, it will take marginally more than standard due to the additional pipe run length.

Job done. 

[landroversforever]

Sounds good Iain

[hangover]

I tow a camper trailer with mine but not often in really high temps , if i dont work it too hard it runs fine and no temp rise.

 I usually have 4 on board plus 2 dogs and all the carp that goes with it , trailer weighs in around 600kg.

 

[Sabre]

On 10/11/2016 at 11:41 PM, Boydie said:

Sabre,

I relocated the condenser myself.  The first thing was to have the system pumped down. I than had to have four brass fittings turned to match the standard ones. These go at each end of the extension pipes. 

You will need these brass fittings,

A blowtorch able to melt blue tip silver solder.

A refrigeration vaccuum pump (I hired mine) and gauges.

A 3/8 & 1/2" hand copper pipe bending tool. 

Normal hand tools, cordless drill etc.

Silver solder (blue tip) and flux paste.

 The pipes required are 3/8 & 1/2" heavy duty refrigeration copper pipe, get at least 4 metres of each size. Also have some straight joiners, 45 and 90 degree elbows.

Remove and relocate the condenser and its fans from the front of the car to the underside of your roof rack, position is so that the angled curve of the roof forces air to pass up and through the condenser.

Relocate the filter dryer from the front of the condenser to vertically next to the driver side battery, the existing refrigeration tube will fit it, take care not to kink it. the compressor discharge hose will twist around to the new location of the two new pipes. the liquid line (38') will enter the wheel arch (fit a thick grummet to protect the pipes from rubbing) and pass it through to behind the driver side headlamp and connect to a NEW filter dryer. The discharge (hot gas 1/2") will pass through the wheel arch in the same opening, both copper pipes pass up the outside of the drivers "A"  column and connect to the condenser. The liquid line needs to be extended from the opposite side of the condenser.  Reconnect the condenser fans to the wining loom.

When all connections have been made attach the gauges and evacuate the system,Ii had mine on vacuum for well over 24 hours.  Go to your local auto airconditioning company and have them recharge the system with refrigerant, it will take marginally more than standard due to the additional pipe run length.

Job done. 

Boydie, just a question : Where the heck do you get time for a full-time occupation if you spend so much time on your Disco ? 

Thanks for the description on how to relocate the Condenser. You don't happen to have a photo of the routing of the piping up to the roof rack ?

[Sabre]

15 hours ago, hangover said:

I tow a camper trailer with mine but not often in really high temps , if i dont work it too hard it runs fine and no temp rise.

 I usually have 4 on board plus 2 dogs and all the carp that goes with it , trailer weighs in around 600kg.

 

I tow a bush trailer with all our camping gear, including 50 liter of water.  In the car 5 adults. Then roof rack with all the stuff that could not get a spot in the trailer. In outside temperatures above 25 degrees, the cooling water temp sits on close to a 100 degrees, and if there is an uphill, will exceed 100. Switching on the heater (we open the windows) slows down the temp increase, but I have had to take it slow for some time after that to get the temp below 100. My cruising speed is between 100 - 110 km/h. I had the radiator cleaned, and replaced the plastic water reservoir with an alluminium one that actually takes an additional 1 liter of water

It made no real difference 

But I like Boydie's idea about the thicker radiator core

Travelling in the Zambezi valley without an aircon can be very uncomfortable. You are then forced to open the windows, which allows the Tsetse flies to come in. If you don't know a Tsetse fly, imagine an insect like a bee, that operates like a dive bomber, and that has a sting the size of a miniture spear.  

[Boydie]

Sabre, 

 

I'm 68 and retired  once a design engineer with access to several well appointed machine and workshops. Increasing the header tank won't make any difference, you could try Evans waterless coolant, the temperature will still be the same (+100) but there wont be any expansion so neutral pressure.  I grew up in Kenya so Tsetse flies and I are old friends, total little person I'm not that keen on ! 

Try wiring the condenser fans to a thermostatic switch in the top hose to bring them on at 90+C - if only to push more air to the radiator. 

[hangover]

In the 10 years i've owned my disco i had never had cooling issues until 2 years when a hose split resulting in a cracked head , then some issues earlier this year which resulted in a head gasket failure but this was a combination of a few issues.

 Now with skimmed head new gasket and bolts, reco'd stock radiator, new viscous clutch its running as good as it ever has.

Most of our driving is in 25C plus temps, the original cooling system is fine if well maintained and the correct concentration of coolant is used.

 I spent 6 months in Africa driving from Kenya to SA in summer so i know what the temps are like.

[Snagger]

Standard LR cooling systems are invariably well up to the job if well maintained.  A member of the local UAE group was asking about why his TDCI Defender aircon wasn't working brilliantly and the engine temperature running slightly warm this summer - it transpired a local garage had advised him to remove the main fan for performance and economy reasons.  Amazing that the system coped at all in heavy traffic in 50oC with no main fan, just the aircon boosters.  Arguably, had it been an old vehicle with scaled or sludged up rad with missing fins, it could have been a different story, but he had no damage.

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, Snagger said:

Standard LR cooling systems are invariably well up to the job if well maintained.  A member of the local UAE group was asking about why his TDCI Defender aircon wasn't working brilliantly and the engine temperature running slightly warm this summer - it transpired a local garage had advised him to remove the main fan for performance and economy reasons.  Amazing that the system coped at all in heavy traffic in 50oC with no main fan, just the aircon boosters.  Arguably, had it been an old vehicle with scaled or sludged up rad with missing fins, it could have been a different story, but he had no damage.

Firstly amazing that they told him that, and even more amazing that it was coping!

[Snagger]

Shocking isn't it!  It's crazy enough hearing that advice in the UK, but down here?  Then again, most of the garage staff are completely unskilled and untrained labourers under the direction of a single person who may or may not have any real technical ability.

[honitonhobbit]

Harsh... but fair

On a 200tdi you can remove the main fan - but not in 50+ temps