Bowie69 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 As above, had a friction based stabiliser fitted, made the world of difference, even only towing 1.5 tons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 When I used to tow with a 90, I had some very close calls! The 90 is just not long or heavy enough to damp oscillations (wobble) if it starts - and it can very easily go very wrong!I fitted one of those towing stabiliser bars - which adds some damping between the vehicle & trailer which made it 10x better. Without the stabiliser, the nose weight on the trailer was critical. With it fitted - it barely made any difference! I'd recommend one if you tow using a 90! Si At the risk of going OT, what actually is it that determines the stability of a trailer + towing vehicle combination? What is it about HGVs that make them stable and 90 + trailer that makes them unstable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 50mph? that it? In the UK the towing speed limit is 60 MPH on motorways, (I'm guessing you are not familiar with that part of the highway code ), and less on other roads. For one thing, no-one needs to drive at the max permitted speed on any road, especially if conditions make it unadvisable - weight of traffic, weather, to mention a couple. Towing a heavy trailer is also a good reason to exercise caution in this respect. Bear in mind that a challenge spec 90 can easily weigh 2.5 tonnes, add another half tonne or more tor the trailer, and any LR will be working pretty hard (yes even a tuned Td5) to drag it along at 50 MPH, never mind 60. Taking things a little slower can reap BIG savings on fuel consumption. When I used to tow with a 90, I had some very close calls! The 90 is just not long or heavy enough to damp oscillations (wobble) if it starts - and it can very easily go very wrong!I fitted one of those towing stabiliser bars - which adds some damping between the vehicle & trailer which made it 10x better. Without the stabiliser, the nose weight on the trailer was critical. With it fitted - it barely made any difference! I'd recommend one if you tow using a 90! Si I have to agree here, I too have had a few scary moments towing poorly loaded trailers with my 90. I'd never considered using a stabliser, I guess I always assumed they were only needed for caravans and other units that catch the wind in a big way. Always good to learn something At the risk of going OT, what actually is it that determines the stability of a trailer + towing vehicle combination? What is it about HGVs that make them stable and 90 + trailer that makes them unstable? Length makes a big difference, particularly the distance between the trailer axles and the rear axle of the tow car, but also the tow car's wheel base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 At the risk of going OT, what actually is it that determines the stability of a trailer + towing vehicle combination? What is it about HGVs that make them stable and 90 + trailer that makes them unstable? It's the combination of the relative weights of the vehicles and the distance between the wheel sets. Both of these change the amount of damping in the system. A light vehicle pulling a heavy trailer can be pushed around by the trailer more easily (again analogous to damping). By adding a stabiliser between the two and significantly increasing the amount of damping in the system, and reduce the chance of feedback / oscillation (wobble). I didn't rate the stabilisers either until I tried one. Likewise I'd assumed they were for family cars towing over sized caravans - but the cause of the wobble is the same, just on a different scale with a Land Rover + 3.5 Ton trailer. I bought one for a few £ at an auto-jumble (Capel IIRC) and after I fitted it, I was just amazed at the difference! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I'd imagine the fact the towing point on a HGV is in front of the rear wheels of the tractor unit makes a massive difference too. Would be interesting to see a 90 set up to take a trailer using a fifth wheel style hitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I've caravaned all my life and we have always had a stabiliser. Originally in the shape of the big long bar type, now the kind that is integrated into the hitch. I've always wondered why they are not more mainstream on other trailers. Maybe they are not rated for the weight of a 3+ Ton trailer. Stability of a vehicle and trailer combo are down to a number of things: -Positioning of the load(s) (Both noseweight and where the load is vertically) -Weight of tow vehicle to trailer (recommended trailer is no more than 80% of tow vehicle in the Caravan club) -Number of axles on trailer (more axles, the more they fight each other on turns so will help to dampen any oscillations -Tow Vehicle wheelbase (Ideally the tow vehicle wheelbase wants to be longer than the trailer wheelbase - hitch to wheels) -Position of tow bar On that latter point, HGVs are stable because the hitch is in front of the rear axle line. The further the hitch is behind the axle line, the less stable it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 One thing I will add, a stabiliser (of either type) is not a substitute for proper loading and driving sensibly. We've had one accident in my 22 years caravanning with the parents. 'Van loaded correctly, stabiliser fitted, weight ratios well within guide lines and driving sensibly. Tail wagged dog and wrote off a brand new 'van. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Would be interesting to see a 90 set up to take a trailer using a fifth wheel style hitch. Here you are Barry and here. Racetech use a pair of Defender 90s for towing horse racing start gates around the country. Here's one based on an 88" too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Yep I've towed my comp motor around the country with 90's, RRC's and then Disco's, then I bought a LWB 4.2 Patrol, sorry but it was a totally different class, completely in control and solid as a rock, no comparison..... I now use a Landcruiser 100 series 24v 4.2, and believe it or not it puts the Patrol to shame, would I tow heavy again with a 90, No I haven't got the bottle.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I like your LC even if it does run out of juice haha. But I agree with Chris, since moving up to something bigger and heavier (never mind power) it's a lot more comfortable. Mine weighs in at nearly 3.5t empty. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 they were lucky me thinks Snorkel looks good considering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Good illustration of the lack of rollover protection in Defenders. Would you say that the very off-road biased tyres and suspension lift (perhaps, looking at it) would be a help or a hindrance when dealing with the issue of towing stability? Not saying that was related to this case, just wondering based on the images above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 i cant see that they would of helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 they were lucky me thinksSnorkel looks good considering looks horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Lift I'd say not going to help as the C.o.G is raised. Offroad tyres might skid more rather than 'dig in' and help a roll over maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I wonder how the chassis faired? It does look like a few body panels would sort it out unless the trailer has twisted the chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 they were lucky me thinksSnorkel looks good considering Bit of T-Cut and a polish - it will be fine! The doors are in better nick than mine! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffDee Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Not in my Landy but some years back (before the H&S boys stopped a lot of fun) We used to help the Local Boys in Blue recover their car’s and other motorist stranded in the snow, About 3 am we spied a snowman about 3ft tall. So with a little encouragement from yours truly we went for it!! Only to find the core was a solid concrete bollard, that took out the bumper N/S/F wing and pushed the front axle back about 3” or so, He was none too happy at the time but we were close to his home so went and recovered it with my 2a, And avoided snowmen for the rest of that night!!! We repaired his the next day, with a new axle and chopped his 2a’s front wings to look like the Snub nose version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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