Boydie Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Australian ex-Army land Rovers (Defenders mainly with a couple of "top brass" Discos) all with Isuzu 4BD1 engine conversions will soon be on the auctioneers market, the engine is a 4 cylinder 3.9 litre turbo Diesel selected by the Australian Army for superior reliability and fuel economy. Isuzu do a flywheel housing to suit the current Land Rover gearbox (6 & 5 speed) so conversion shouldnt be a problem. The engine is a cross flow with (drivers perspective) inlet on the RH and exhaust on the LD.Intercooler is from the few photos available located inside the RH wheel arch behind the headlights with its own electric cooling fan leaving the frontal radiator free to be 100% coolant along with the A/C condenser if required. The A/C compressor can be fitted under the (LH of engine) alternator. Snorkel is up the LH "A" column as per a disco. I may just have to reconsider rebuilding a 300TDi engine and just buy one of them, take the engine out of the convertable Army Defender and drop it in my Disco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I think it would be rude not to I wouldn't mind the cost of a 4 pin diff, to get torque like that ! Even though I am on the other side of the planet I think that might pull well in my 3.5 tonne transit I wonder what the shipping would be on a rust free landy with a proper engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 I dunno about the cost but I'll enquire for you if youre serious but the more I think about it the more attracive the option is, spending $5000 on building a 300TDi or buying a Defender with the Isuzu for half the price, even less if I put my existing 300Tdi into the army defender and sell it on Ebay for the cost of the army unit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Isuzu do a flywheel housing to suit the current Land Rover gearbox (6 & 5 speed) so conversion shouldnt be a problem. Are you sure? The only flywheel housings i've heard of are to rover v8 pattern. I was pretty sure that the 4bd1 was only ever fitted in front of the lt95 4 speed, and even then the aus army had to up-spec the transfer case bearings to achieve a decent service life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 DD, not 100% certain I'm only going by what I've been informed by the army mechanics who work on them and read in the spec sheets, but the 4BD1 is still specified by the RAA for current Land Rover long range vehicles for the SAS, I get the impression that the conversion is carried out locally in Oz but again I could be wrong, it may be done in India. I did note that the diff lock has been taken out, maybe the dog clutch isnt up to the additional torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Australian ex-Army land Rovers (Defenders mainly with a couple of "top brass" Discos) all with Isuzu 4BD1 engine conversions will soon be on the auctioneers market, the engine is a 4 cylinder 3.9 litre turbo Diesel selected by the Australian Army for superior reliability and fuel economy. Just to clear things up the engine in the 4x4 army landrovers is not the turbo version but the stock standard 4BD1. The turbo version was only fitted to the 6x6 versions which are few and far between compared to 4x4 numbers. Also this is an expensive way to get your hands on a 4BD1 - the expectation is that these vehicles will sell for top dollar - just have a look at the prices of the recently released TD5 Defenders from the Army which were not really military spec - up around $20k - $30k. Also the only gearboxes that are going to survive behind these engines are the Izusu gearboxes, the LT95 and LT85 - the R380 will probably not last long. You would be better off buying an engine at a wreckers or get a old Stage 1 or early County - they do come up cheap sometimes. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Garry, The one I viewed ay Holdsworthy Army Base this afternoon was a "carrier" Land Rover Defender - standard 110 wheel basefitted with the Isuzu 4BD1 engine. The turbo was located to the right of the rocker cover it has 875,000 kilometers on the clock and the tyres would need to be replaced to pass a pink slip registration certificate, the canvass rear tarp had been repaired in several places and while it had recieved regular maintenance it was due to retirement. According to the civilian guide they were expected to go for around $15,000.00 each and lower for bulk purchases of 5 or more units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Isuzu_engines this unit isnt exactly army but just about a copy of the one viewed, the revevent parts are all in the right place, the metal polishing is a bit extroverted but it does look good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 sorry wrong site - excuse a ancient Luddite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Garry,The one I viewed ay Holdsworthy Army Base this afternoon was a "carrier" Land Rover Defender - standard 110 wheel basefitted with the Isuzu 4BD1 engine. The turbo was located to the right of the rocker cover it has 875,000 kilometers If this 110 vehicle (4x4) had the 4bd1-T engine then it would have been an odd-ball and does not represent standard 110s. http://www.allisons.org/ll/4/LandRover/Perentie/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Perentie Even if the vehicles do sell for $15K that is an awfully expensive way to get an engine to put into your Disco - you can get brand new Chinese copies of the 4BD1 for about $5000 and as I said get an engine from a wrecker or something similar for somewhat less. If you want a Perenti the go for it but the economics of what you are proposing for your Disco doesn't hold up. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Garry, perhaps so, however consider this, if I bid and buy a Perentie, I could transfer the engine transmission set from the Perentie into my disco, put my 300TDI into the Perenti 110 and sell it for around $3-4000.00 and that represents a very low cost option, the alternative is a lot of messing arround with transmission adaptors to get the 4BD1 to suit my ZF4HP22 auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Have a look at this thread on AULRO - the guy bought a cheap Range Rover with a turboed 4BD1 in it. He is taking the engine/gearbox etc out and is putting it into his dead 300TDI Defender. Sort of the opposite of what you want to do but a lot of the information will be of help to you. http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/167743-isuzu-engine-swops-dummies.html If you are not on www.AULRO.com you should join up. Cheers Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_ie Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Have a look at this thread on AULRO - the guy bought a cheap Range Rover with a turboed 4BD1 in it. He is taking the engine/gearbox etc out and is putting it into his dead 300TDI Defender. Sort of the opposite of what you want to do but a lot of the information will be of help to you.http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/167743-isuzu-engine-swops-dummies.html If you are not on www.AULRO.com you should join up. Cheers Garry "The guy" in question would be me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_ie Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Only came across this thread by accident while looking up some LT85 info, but I'm the person who is currently carrying out the conversion in the AULRO thread that garrycol linked to. The AULRO forum is definitely an invaluable resource if you are doing such a conversion, but if you want any info specific to my conversion, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Thanks Mike, I may just do that, -- contact you I mean --- at present it's a toss up between buying a used 300TDi and doing a total "blue print" rebuild so that the engine is 99% pefect, fully ballanced etc and then swapping it for the 300TDi currently in my Disco at an estimated all up finished cost of around $5-6000.00 or.. putting in a bid for a used army Perentie and swapping the 4BD1 "T" out of it putting my 300TDi engine in the Perentie and then selling the Perentie to cover some of the costs. There seems to be some confusion however as some of the Perentie 4 wheelers I've seen since then are turbo'd while some have the standard non turbo engine, and I dont want a non turbo engine! - however all the 6 wheeler Perentie trucks are turboed but come ar a far higher auction price and beyond my old age pension means. The other alternative of buying a isuzu 4BD1 with or without turbo and making it fit simply isnt on the cards, far too much messing arround, the whole attraction of the Perentie swap was that the mods had already been made to make the engine and gearbox suit my chassis by the Australian Army and Land Rover Australia, albeit with the assistance of Indian labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_ie Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Bear in mind that if you start exchanging engines between the 300tdi vehicle and the Isuzu vehicle, you'll have to get at least the vehicle that ends up with the Isuzu engine certified by an engineer, and probably the 300tdi recipient too, seeing as how you'll be welding in new engine mounts and all. That's going to add at least another $800 per engineer cert to the final bill. One option worth considering is contacting TRS in Adelaide, as they are currently wrecking three Isuzu Countys. I enquired a few weeks ago, and they were selling off engine, radiator, bellhousing, and all the bits form under the engine for $3000, then you just have to source your choice of gearbox and transfer case (from TRS as well, if you want), and you're set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 The engineering bit is covered - when I cun spel it I iz wun ! (retired but not yet senile) I may not be an automotive engineer but my qualifications more than pass muster, I've certified enough rally cars in my time to be aware of the requirements and pitfalls. Both will, as you said need to be certified however the design details from the ADF cover 90% of the NSW Registration requirements as these were carried out for the original certification and are readily available from the ADF. "Derating" the Pirenti to a 300TDi will present no problems either even allowing for the increased engine weight. In the meanwhile as you advised I'll contact TRS and see what dollars they are asking. An ADF 4WD Pirenti auctioned is, on average $9,000.00 +GST and auctioneers fees and even less for one of the 12 units that will be auctioned off and that have been technically written off due to excessive body damage, I'm reliably informed that these will go for around $3000.00 as they are so badly damaged that they will need to be craned onto a trailer at Brisbane and or Townsville barracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_ie Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 The engineering bit is covered - when I cun spel it I iz wun ! (retired but not yet senile) I may not be an automotive engineer but my qualifications more than pass muster, I've certified enough rally cars in my time to be aware of the requirements and pitfalls. Great! I'll expect my engineers cert in the mail sometime next week then?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 Good try, I'd need to inspect it first and check your welding details, weight loading calcs on the alterations to the front and rear suspension points etc etc and grease lubricate assage my palm with some currency and by all means Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john erbe Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Been following the the thread in that I'm looking for the correct diesel to put into my 5-speed Disco 1. What about the Mercedes 300 that they made from the late 70's to early 90's? I'm looking for at least 30 mpg which I understand I wont achieve with the 300TDI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 I dont know that you will achieve 30mpg with any diesel in a 2400kg Disco even with 5 speeds but the Iveco is a current engine and spares are very reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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