dirtydiesel Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 A little beef in the steering department never hurts. I don't know whether to take some weight out of them with the mill yet though. I'm using Delphi ta1168 and ta1169 track rod ends There original application is 3 ton transit and merc g wagon, I'll post a pic of one next to a landy one they inspire a little more confidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 What sort of ackermann have you gone for on your steering arms? Sorry if I've missed previous discussion on it. Is there any keyway or interference fit on the steering arms, or just the 4 bolts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 This is full bump, and proved that mk1 panard rod mounting won't work, as the diff pan is where the chassis end of the panhard wanted to be. Maybe my sense of scale is off but any particular reason why you are going for a relatively short panhard rod, aside from wanting to retain the stock steering box location? Another question. Why did you plug the draglink into the new top steering arm instead of the original lower arm? Surely both panhard and draglink would be much more parrallel that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 The panhard rod is 750mm center to center, the front steering bar is 850mm, I physically cannot squeeze a longer one in, and retain the bump travel I want. Remember Bill that pic is at full bump, at ride height the steering bar sits dead. This is something I tried hard to achieve so that the maximum force goes into turning the steering, rather than some of it escaping into attempting to lift the chassis off the axle. The mk4 panhard rod mounts have been given the green light and are halfway finished, pics tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Thanks Dan, my sense of scale was miles out. I was picturing the panhard being around 550mm. How did you get from MK1 to MK4 already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Mk2 was a rehash of mk1 that still didn't fit, Mk3 was going to go behind the track bar mounted off the 1 link itself, but this didn't get from cardboard to steel before being written off as the bar itself would have had to have been an overly complex shape. Mk4 has it's own packaging peculiarities as I've gone directly on top of the axle case, but my mock ups look like I'll have about 1/8 of a turn on the steering wheel from full bump to full droop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Remember that your roll centre is the centre of the panhard. Theoretically, the fr centre should be lower than the rr centre, for good handling. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 It had been playing on my mind, but I'd rather build in zero bump steer. And I'm not so sure it will upset the sports car like handling. :-) I can raise the rear panhard rod to only slightly below the front if I feel I need to anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 What sort of ackermann have you gone for on your steering arms? Sorry if I've missed previous discussion on it. Is there any keyway or interference fit on the steering arms, or just the 4 bolts? Copied from page 2 of this thread just for you Luke. Then i measured the steering box throw, drew out the 19.6 degrees of ackermann and made some mock Hi-steer arms, and mock steering bars. Dowels to take some of the shear loading off the swivel bolts, clever austrians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 To slightly rephrase and repeat a question from page 2 Dan. Is the ackerman angle of the new upper arms measured from the centre of the kingpin at top, or at the intersection point where the centre of the kingpin axis meets the halfshaft centre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Interesting build! Liking the amount of custom fabrication you are doing. The Ackermann thing is very interesting. i hope to make an adapter to give the extra bit of missing angle on the track rod arms on my disco, is there any easy way of calculating the amount needed? like a formula or something? had a bit of a look but cannot find much at all about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Copied from page 2 of this thread just for you Luke. Thanks. My bad for missing the original info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 The Ackermann thing is very interesting. is there any easy way of calculating the amount needed? like a formula or something? had a bit of a look but cannot find much at all about it! Have a read of http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=81512'>this thread, lots of useful info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 To slightly rephrase and repeat a question from page 2 Dan. Is the ackerman angle of the new upper arms measured from the centre of the kingpin at top, or at the intersection point where the centre of the kingpin axis meets the halfshaft centre? Sorry Bill, I read and understood your earlier question I must have only answered in my head though!! The angle is from the center of the kingpin axis, it actually made very little difference to where the Tre ended up as there's only 8° of kpi in the swivels. Here's a comparison shot of the TA1168/69 and a landy track rod end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Thanks Dan. I re read my question on page 2 and I could barely understand it myself. . I've opened up the guts and compared quite a few different TRE's over the years, including Volvo 303/6, F series Fords etc, and rarely found anything that compared to the design of genuine LandRover ones with their 2 hardened hemispheres and full circle ball pin. Never broken one, but have tested a few dodgy Indian and Taiwanese replacements that i was able to snap off at the pipe thread much more easily than genuine ones did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 I managed to break every TRE i tried Bill, until i moved into unimog ones, they don't even seem to wear out. No need for TRE's that big on this though, the g wagon ones will be fine Panhard rod is finished, the link ends are 3" balistic fab joints. I used 45mm OD 8mm wall cds for the panhard rod tube. I don't have any way to machine the tapers directly into the steering arms so i had some bushes made with a tapered center, bored the arms and pressed them in, i left them on top of the log burner for an hour before welding the bushes in. Ride height Full bump Fullest amount of axle travel i could get out of it, i'm thinking about going to 18" shocks to use as much of this as i can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Out of curiosity, whats the limiting factor for the amount of travel? And are you going to be putting a strap on to limit total travel of the axle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Chassis end bush of one link followed by length and position of panhard rod. I will be having center check strap, but no limiting straps for roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Still a good amount of travel you have tho. I plan to check strap my axle but unsure of what to limit the travel to, What are you thinking with this? Is there a rule of thumb for the strap length? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 That is proper flex! I seriously doubt you will ever need anymore. With this flex, packaging space really becomes the biggest issue, just imagine a 38" tyre at that angle, finding place for it to turn, and not to mention space for the shock/coilover/airshock. Good work Dan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 There is actually more space than I need for tyres and shocks. I am still fighting the panhard rod though. I have near zero bump steer but due to the height difference between the panhard and the steering bar I am getting excessive roll steer. I might shorten the front one link down by a few inches to accommodate a lower chassis mount for the panhard rod yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 At last I've found a bit of time for the jeep. I had to give in and shorten the one link down by 70mm to make space for a lower panhard rod. This is the new panhard rod now 810mm long, I have chosen not to use the ballistic Fab joints instead I've used a rose bush from the rear suspension of a BMW x5. Bush housings. I now have zero bump and roll steer, and I've gained a fair bit more clearance at full bump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 That looks really good, like the axle bracketry so far for the panhard. You still aiming for 90 degree approach angle even with axle being moved back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 At last I've found a bit of time for the jeep. I had to give in and shorten the one link down by 70mm to make space for a lower panhard rod. This is the new panhard rod now 810mm long, I have chosen not to use the ballistic Fab joints instead I've used a rose bush from the rear suspension of a BMW x5. Are these the same ones used on the D3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 Are these the same ones used on the D3? I think the d3 ones are slightly bigger. These are the same as the ones i'm using, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E60-E61-X5-E64-E65-E66-E38-E39-REAR-ROSE-JOINT-BUSH-x-2-/320915858339?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4ab81363a3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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