o_teunico Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 Errrrrrrr...think that this other x-joint will be useless in a Landy, but maybe for the bedroom... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 Redneck solution is a trailer ball. Grader balls seems to be quite popular and HD. Fortunately I live "near" (about 100km) from Ponferrada. There is Europe´s biggest power equipment breaker, Casquero www.casquero.es/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 Info taken from pirate4x4... Komatsu part # Ball- 31053Cups- 31059 (2 required)Shim 1- 12699Shim 2- 12699A Ball Diameter 2.433"Ball base diameter 2.497"Ball base height 1.013"Overall ball height (base to top) 4.0775"Cup through bolt center spacing 4.493"Cup through hole diameter 0.784"Cup flange thickness @ through holes 0.794"Gap between cups when bolted together on ball 0.380"Shim 1 thickness .016"Shim 2 thickness .034" final cost was $328 Komatsu unilink suspension working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 A disadvantage that cannot be overseen, to having one-link in both ends, is that you'll then have two panhards. Not ideal if the car gets airborn, even less so if there's a lot of "droop" in the suspension. If you fix them both to the same side, the car will try to tip to one side when landing, if you fit them to either side it'll try to steer in one direction on landing. This could however be cured with a Watts linkage, but it is somewhat sophisticated compared to a simple Panhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 A disadvantage that cannot be overseen, to having one-link in both ends, is that you'll then have two panhards. Not ideal if the car gets airborn, even less so if there's a lot of "droop" in the suspension. If you fix them both to the same side, the car will try to tip to one side when landing, if you fit them to either side it'll try to steer in one direction on landing. This could however be cured with a Watts linkage, but it is somewhat sophisticated compared to a simple Panhard I've never come across any problems caused by having both panhards mounted from the same side. Mounted opposite's is dangerous in a comp safari car, due to droop-steer, having a panhard front and a watts linkage rear will still result in droop-steer. There is another alternative to panhards or watts linkage. A sliding "A" frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Did a sliding A frame once by replacing the A frame balljoint and carrier with an old 6'' stroke hydraulic ram with a axle end trailing arm bushing welded to it. Unlike the balljoint this gives unrestricted articulation in roll and droop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 Dirtydiesel, what bushing are you using in Wrangler´s unilink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Interesting thread, I like the idea of the Single point setup on the front end, but I do like the A frame setup on the rear which is let down by the ball joint! Did a sliding A frame once by replacing the A frame balljoint and carrier with an old 6'' stroke hydraulic ram with a axle end trailing arm bushing welded to it. Unlike the balljoint this gives unrestricted articulation in roll and droop. Bill have you got any pics or anything for this, as I've been thinking of doing something similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Dirtydiesel, what bushing are you using in Wrangler´s unilink? Discovery 2, chassis end of front radius arm bushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Interesting thread, I like the idea of the Single point setup on the front end, but I do like the A frame setup on the rear which is let down by the ball joint! Bill have you got any pics or anything for this, as I've been thinking of doing something similar Afraid Mark that link plus a lot of other stuff went to the scrappy after it all rusted up after the bushfires we had here a few years back. Fairly easy to work out though. Cut the bolt mounting off the A frame ball joint carrier and weld it to the side of the ram body.Cut end off old trailing arm and weld to piston rod of ram. Cut off A frame mounting on axle and weld on a clevis mounting to suit the trailing arm bushing. I kept the clevis bolt centre the same height as the ball pivot, but you could experiment with different height roll centres by having multiple bolt holes. Didn't really need a 6'' stroke ram, but that is the one I got for free. 3'' stroke would have been enough from memory. If you wanted to retain the original trailing arms, then a sliding A frame link of course would not be applicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 good to see you about Bill. I hope all is well mate cheers Serg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 good to see you about Bill. I hope all is well matecheers Serg Hi Serg.Gradually getting back to something resembling normal, thanks. Tried to send you a PM at the other forum but it wouldn't go through. I was trying to find your email address from one you sent me a couple of years ago to no avail. I knew you are a member here and would be just a matter of time before you turned up. Couldn't accept having my posts deleted on the Juliar Gillard thread on the other forum. The Newbie 6x6 disco thread from Spain on here caught my eye a few weeks ago, so I thought I'll hang around for a bit. Catch you around the forums. Regards. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 Discovery 2, chassis end of front radius arm bushes Any pic showing how much flex can be obtained with this bushes? If you wanted to retain the original trailing arms, then a sliding A frame link of course would not be applicable. Is the sliding A frame only suitable for 1Link systems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Is the sliding A frame only suitable for 1Link systems? Yes it is purely for lateral location of the axle and allows the One link to articulate without inducing roll steer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 And how is the ram connected? Just leaving hidraulic pipes open to air? Will dust ingress and destroy it from inside by grinding? Could a similar system made with one tube inside other (with some grase nipples on it) work in the same way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I always wanted to build a sliding A frame constructed similar to conventional rover frame but instead on the a frame ball joint part have a piece of say 40mm solid stainless bar sticking out running through a self aligning housed bearing like this one http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p71063/RHP+NP40+Two+Bolt+Cast+Iron+Pillow+Block+&+40mm+Bore+Grub+Screw+Full+Width+Insert/product_info.html You can get 4 bolt housings and stainless inserts if needed as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 And the roller housing will be bolted in the axle where the original ball will be bolted...I´m OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 And how is the ram connected? Just leaving hidraulic pipes open to air? Will dust ingress and destroy it from inside by grinding? No, just screw a plug in the pipe hole.A little bit of vacuum won't stop the ram from telescoping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Questions: I am building a challenge vehicle, I have the options of rear radius arms using D2 front radius arms. Or a 3 link with panard using D2 front radius arms with the end chopped as lower links and I'm unsure of how long the 3rd link should be or how much lower to upper separation at the chassis end is needed. I have thought I could have radius arms for speed events and 3link for more challenging events. The mounts are the same just swap out some links. Reason behind discovery 2 links is they're cheap and strong, they also allow huge flex due to there bushes. I will be running d2 radius arms on the front too. Vehicle will have a wheelbase of 110 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Questions:I am building a challenge vehicle, I have the options of rear radius arms using D2 front radius arms. Or a 3 link with panard using D2 front radius arms with the end chopped as lower links and I'm unsure of how long the 3rd link should be or how much lower to upper separation at the chassis end is needed. I have thought I could have radius arms for speed events and 3link for more challenging events. The mounts are the same just swap out some links. Reason behind discovery 2 links is they're cheap and strong, they also allow huge flex due to there bushes. I will be running d2 radius arms on the front too. Vehicle will have a wheelbase of 110 A lot of compliance in the axle end bushings of a 3 link arrangement is neither needed nor desirable for good articulation. To run modified D2 radius arms would require a lot of vertical separation between the upper link and the 2 lowers. I haven't got a D2 to look at but if the leading radius arm bush on the rear axle is above the axle centreline then you would require even more vertical separation to control torque reaction. best to sleeve the modified radius arms down to accept less compliant bushings.Vertical separation of the links at the chassis would depend on how much antisquat geometry works best in the challenge conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Errrrr...another crazy idea... On heavy trucks is a common practice to have various propshafts joined instead of a super long one. Could a similar arrangement be used along with a 1Link for a 60 degree suspension travel without reaching UJ/CVs limits? I have never seen this made. Propshaft will become too short? Nobody needs a 60 degree suspension travel? Have I invented something new and will become extremly rich by patenting it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Errrrr...another crazy idea...On heavy trucks is a common practice to have various propshafts joined instead of a super long one. Could a similar arrangement be used along with a 1Link for a 60 degree suspension travel without reaching UJ/CVs limits? I have never seen this made. Propshaft will become too short? Nobody needs a 60 degree suspension travel? Have I invented something new and will become extremly rich by patenting it ? Unfortunately for your bank account, I think Sonny Honegger in the US may have already done it on the front of his very articulate Scorpian buggies some years back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Unfortunately for your bank account, I think Sonny Honegger in the US may have already done it I read some time ago about a spaniard that inverted two years of his life (and no little money) in developing a portable camping toilet before discovering that a german had the same idea years ago and was already patented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 What are peoples thoughts on replacing the A frame ball joint with a large (say 30mm) rose joint, would allow unlimited articulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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