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One Link and 3Link front suspension (homemade)


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I use ballistic's 3.0 joint on the chassis end of the jimny's one links,http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/30-Ultra-Duty-BALLISTIC-Joint_p_1507.html

To be honest I was intending to use the one you linked, but I was on my phone n having issues posting for some reason, that's the link I had to hand.

I think too much focus is on the bush used rather than the joints attachment to the link, and the links attachment to the axle.

Not quite sure what you mean?

I really don't see how the style of joint you have linked to can be robustly intergrated into a link,

remember the 1 link is likely to be the the lowest point of the car so that 1.25" stub will have to take the entire weight of the car at times

DO you mean if the car grounded on the 1 link frame, or just the working forces

I used 2 of the 3.0's on the chassis ends of the front upper links they survived very well, but they did require adjustment a couple of times.

I'm trying to come up with a bush/joint to use but keep hitting a brick wall, the only thing I have found is this, but it will cost a bomb to get it and ship it.

http://www.zuksoffroad.com/ZOR1link-basic-kit-one_p_175.html

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Mark, the joint/bushing I'm using is from chassis end of truck a frame

Like here

http://www.warmstrong.co.uk/shop/suspension/v-stays-fittings/volvo-v-stay-a-frame-20556490-ta100000188

Actual bush used is similar to this one

http://www.warmstrong.co.uk/shop/suspension/v-stays-fittings/volvo-fm-fh-v-stay-repair-kit-ta100000171

But the ones I've used are second hand (too worn for truck use) and free. I doubt I'll ever need to replace the rubber. Bill has also explained above how he used a similar bush with success.

I'm not saying this is better or worse than the ones you are considering, just another option

I think too much focus is on the bush used rather than the joints attachment to the link, and the links attachment to the axle.

I really don't see how the style of joint you have linked to can be robustly intergrated into a link, remember the 1 link is likely to be the the lowest point of the car so that 1.25" stub will have to take the entire weight of the car at times

Can you explain this further please dan, I too don't understand what you're saying
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yeah they seem good ,would be good if I can get them made ,,and make them stronger.. been lookin at a few and these seem the best one's

so far ..

www.d-90.com/prod/hinge.html

www.suspensionstuff.com.au/shop/product_...3ce3c286eb39108a644d

www.superiorengineering.com.au/index.php?pag_id=24

www.monster4x4.com.au/blog/2008/06/11/my...x-arms-have-arrived/

www.superiorengineering.com.au/index.php?pag_id=24

www.monster4x4.com.au/blog/2008/06/11/my...x-arms-have-arrived/

http://www.cd4x4.com/joomla/login-1924.html

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I think too much focus is on the bush used rather than the joints attachment to the link, and the links attachment to the axle.

Can you explain this further please dan, I too don't understand what you're saying

What i'm trying ineloquently to say, is that i think that the actual quality of the fabrication of the one link and the materials used in it's construction will have a far greater effect on the longevity of the system than bush selection.

I have had a few pm's asking about suitable joints and in most of the threads joint selection seems to be at the forefront of peoples inquiries/criticisms of the system, i don't think i've ever been asked or really seen any critique on material selection for the link itself.

I really quite like the bush you used for your 1 link, simple to mount robustly and probably quite supple, any pics of yours flexed up?

I'm trying to come up with a bush/joint to use but keep hitting a brick wall, the only thing I have found is this, but it will cost a bomb to get it and ship it.

http://www.zuksoffroad.com/ZOR1link-basic-kit-one_p_175.html

Why do you think you need a joint that can allow unlimited roll? have a look back through the pics in my wrangler thread and see how much flex the disco2 radius arm bush will allow, from memory i would have needed 20" travel shocks to max the bush out!!!

Also the way zuksoffroad bolt there joint to the 1 link looks like a disaster waiting to happen.

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What i'm trying ineloquently to say, is that i think that the actual quality of the fabrication of the one link and the materials used in it's construction will have a far greater effect on the longevity of the system than bush selection.

I have had a few pm's asking about suitable joints and in most of the threads joint selection seems to be at the forefront of peoples inquiries/criticisms of the system, i don't think i've ever been asked or really seen any critique on material selection for the link itself.

I really quite like the bush you used for your 1 link, simple to mount robustly and probably quite supple, any pics of yours flexed up?

Now I get you.

For me, understanding how a joint or bush works is within my knowledge (I feel). Whereas I'm ill equipped to discuss material selection or design really. I go in for "seat of your pants" engineering, as in if it looks right it *might be right. Also I "suck it and see" and use the forum as a sounding board for my design choices.

On the first effort:

My wishbone is made out of two standard land rover radius arms bent using heat approx 80mm behind the centre line of the axle. I used a spare axle case and made some shims to hold the arms square whilst I welded some scrap angle iron accross the underside to hold the rigid. The bush spigot (30mm od forged steel) I'm using is welded directly to the ends of the radius arms and plated in with some 10mm, the two legs of the wishbone are braced with some tube between them lower down, approx 300mm from the bush.

Second effort

Again using radius arms bent in the same location and using same technique, again braced with scrap whilst welding. Angles at the crossmember for the bush are 10degrees different to the first one. I'm yet to get around to it but I intend to make the lateral brace between the two arms of the wish bone pick up on the two threaded holes in the bottom of the diff casing. Also I intend to look at some kind of track rod protection but I'm yet to come up with anything which doesn't decrease the already poor ground clearance.

I choose to use standard radius arms because they are readily available and already fit the existing axle bracketry (and you may remember how much I hate rebracketting axles), also they are a known quantity, I know they bend and weld well, and I know they are strong enough for the job. Equally I have tried where possible to use existing holes/mounts/brackets on the vehicle so that I can easily alter thing later, or even revert to standard if I wish. I had no interest or indeed time or materials to effectly reinvent the wheel to manufacture a wishbone which was effectively two bent hockey sticks. Weight was less of a concern to me over strength. I like the old phrase "strength, weight, cost. Pick any two", in this case it was (high) strength and (low) cost for me

In future, once I'm happy with it, I am toying with the idea of making saddles for the axle end of the wishbone and using u bolts to attach it to the axle. This is for reasons of improved ground clearance, I could weld the wishbone directly to the axle case of course but I would prefer to have the axle be unbolt able. I probably won't do this until my axle choice is finalised as I doubt I can package it for multiple scenarios.

I think I covered everything there. I really do miss the old days where the forum was entirely filled with posts and threads similar to this, so it was almost therapy for me to write this post :)

No I don't have any pictures at the moment, as due entirely to a lack of money for my land rover hobby I don't have dampers long enough to use the one link, so it is not presently fitted.

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What i'm trying ineloquently to say, is that i think that the actual quality of the fabrication of the one link and the materials used in it's construction will have a far greater effect on the longevity of the system than bush selection.

I have had a few pm's asking about suitable joints and in most of the threads joint selection seems to be at the forefront of peoples inquiries/criticisms of the system, i don't think i've ever been asked or really seen any critique on material selection for the link itself.

I really quite like the bush you used for your 1 link, simple to mount robustly and probably quite supple, any pics of yours flexed up?

Why do you think you need a joint that can allow unlimited roll? have a look back through the pics in my wrangler thread and see how much flex the disco2 radius arm bush will allow, from memory i would have needed 20" travel shocks to max the bush out!!!

Also the way zuksoffroad bolt there joint to the 1 link looks like a disaster waiting to happen.

Dan, one question does spring to mind: I have seen you used the rubber bush and a balistic, solid joint to do the same thing. What would you prefer from these experiences? I can imagine the rubber bush giving you a bit of complience for big hits and vibrations, vs. the joint giving you a completely solid solution. Also, if you get a big hit on 1 wheel, the joint is going to be pushed sideways and back, which in case of the rubber bush might disintegrate it. How long would you say the rubber bush lasts in this application?

Daan

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Thanks for the replys, my problem is I dont have any knolage of big bushes and joints to know whats available and would be up to the job.

This is a part that in my mind which could quite be easily to be done in a way that it would not up to the task as its a very complicated part compared to the rest of the setup which unlike the joint can be easily over engineered to be strong!

My idea is to attach the 1link with bushes in the original or in a new possition depending on how it can be packaged so it hase some give as dan says.

I also posed this question on pirate and I've found a weldable rose joint. Its rated at.80,000lbs and is 4inch od with a 1inch through bolt (double sheer).

The other option is a bush like you guys suggested. I just worry about longevity.

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Personally I prefer a rubber bushing. I suppose I f you were using a spherical bearing or ball joint etc you could bush the crossmember instead, it's a bit more work tho.

Mark, do you have a build thread or any further info on your vehicle? What will you make the wishbone and crossmember out of? Where will you mount the joint? Do you plan to keep the geometry as standard?

If I hadn't got the bushings I've used already, and at no cost, I had intended to use a single standard chassis end radius arm bush. A user on here built one links using them and it seemed robust enough to me, I saw the car get some serious stick at a few events. I'll find the thread for you

Does anyone know what the commercially available Cambridge fabrication kit used as a joint/bushing?

Edit: found the link http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=10476#entry110400

Second edit: answered my own question - Cambridge fab used a chassis end radius arm bush

http://www.devon4x4.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&catid=5&id=111021&Itemid=106&view=topic#111157

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I am fanatical about cleanliness when welding, I don't know why, but I like to linish with a soft pad in the 4.5" grinder and then DA at 80grit, I then clean the materials with panel wipe before welding. But besides that no special prep, I don't know whether I'm supposed to, I'm only an enthusiastic amateur with a little knowledge picked up from the various trades I've worked in, from former colleagues and from this forum.

Dan is a proper metals geek, he'll know what is correct technique for welding to radius arms/bushings etc

When you say bush mountings what do you mean exactly? I posted a few pictures of a one link I made earlier in this thread, have you looked at those?

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Personally I prefer a rubber bushing. I suppose I f you were using a spherical bearing or ball joint etc you could bush the crossmember instead, it's a bit more work tho.

Mark, do you have a build thread or any further info on your vehicle? What will you make the wishbone and crossmember out of? Where will you mount the joint? Do you plan to keep the geometry as standard?

If I hadn't got the bushings I've used already, and at no cost, I had intended to use a single standard chassis end radius arm bush. A user on here built one links using them and it seemed robust enough to me, I saw the car get some serious stick at a few events. I'll find the thread for you

Does anyone know what the commercially available Cambridge fabrication kit used as a joint/bushing?

Edit: found the link http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=10476#entry110400

Second edit: answered my own question - Cambridge fab used a chassis end radius arm bush

http://www.devon4x4.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&catid=5&id=111021&Itemid=106&view=topic#111157

Brilliant info there Lewis cheers!

I sent a pm

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Did you do any specific prep before welding Lewis?

Dan is a proper metals geek, he'll know what is correct technique for welding to radius arms/bushings etc

All the landrover radius arms i've modified have been a really nice quality cast(or forged) steel, a good scratch up with a grinder is all they really need. You do need quite a few amps to make a good job though.

I hacked about some D2 arms a while ago and they wern't quite as nice as old style ones,

If the arms you are modifing are particulally crappy, then a good preheat will help sweat any contaminants off them or out of them. but i'm pretty sure the cast good enough to not be porous at all.

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I read when welding cast it can cause cracking when cooling, is the the case with the arms too?

The cracking occurs (in simplified terms) because the weld and cast iron cool at different rates. This is not an issue with cast steels, because the parent metal behaves much like the weld.

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Do you think it would be worth making some of these? To go with the Range Rover L322 wishbone joints.

Rangey%20Joint.jpg

I'd figured on an M27 x 1.5mm pitch thread on the boss as it's a (fairly) standard, easy to obtain size for taps, lock nuts etc.

I'm guessing they would cost about £25 - if I ordered about 100 off. That would give you a joint with more offset than a Jonny Joint for less than half the money?

Having played with them a bit - I'm nothing but impressed with the design & construction. They look to me like an ideal choice for some suspension components - and being a standard LR part, easy to find spares!

Further to my last post, the patterned joints seem to max out at exactly the same angle as the LR Genuine ones. They look like the same part!

Si

I think that could be a good seller. Could you also do a version without the threaded bit, so you could weld them to a tube?

Daan

http://www.metalcloak.com/Jeep-Suspension-Builders-Parts-s/235.htm
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The cracking occurs (in simplified terms) because the weld and cast iron cool at different rates. This is not an issue with cast steels, because the parent metal behaves much like the weld.

Which radius arms do you think are cast steel Dan ? The earlier, narrow bushed ones I have played with can virtually be tied in knots even cold without any sign of cracking, so I would hazard a guess that they would be forged.

A warning to anyone considering bending GQ Nissan Patrol RA's. DON'T ! !.They shatter !

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Which radius arms do you think are cast steel Dan ? The earlier, narrow bushed ones I have played with can virtually be tied in knots even cold without any sign of cracking, so I would hazard a guess that they would be forged.

A warning to anyone considering bending GQ Nissan Patrol RA's. DON'T ! !.They shatter !

Both the early narrow type and the later wide type are cast or forged steel of some description, i wouldn't have thought a raduis arm would have been forged but i don't really know a lot about the forging process.

The only thing i have noticed is the later ones tend to surface craze a li

Interesting about GQ arms Bill, i have reshaped 70 series arms and they behaved just like rover arms.

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Interesting about GQ arms Bill, i have reshaped 70 series arms and they behaved just like rover arms.

After bending Rover radius arms many years ago for castor correction, a friend tried the same with the RA's on his lifted GQ Nissan with disastrous results. Agree about Toyota RA's, the pivot bushing on my rear One Link is a chopped 80 series RA and it welded beautifully.

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  • 2 years later...

Any updates on how the RBK500220 bushes lasted on the 3 link setup, Im in the process of making up a 3 link setup and want to use these joints as a cheaper alternative so long they will last a reasonable amount of abuse.

I'd be interested to know as well.

I also wonder if Si got any further with producing a housing for them?

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