mudmuncher Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Evening everyone Please help as I have major problems with getting a decent brake pedal To put you in the picture Firstly I know how to bleed brake The Landy is a 1987 90 Solid disks and pads on the front Drums and shoes on the rear All discs and pads and drums and shoes were replaced about a year ago The master cylinder was replace at the same time with a trw make ( think that's correct maybe twr ?) Rear shoes are adjusted correctly aswell Problem is when I hit the brakes the pedal goes to the floor this hardy slows her down at all Each pump afterwards builds up to a better pedal but as soon as I take my foot of and reapply the pedal goes to the floor again Regarding the bleeding I have tried the 2 man method AND the easy bleed kit both don't give me brakes !!!! I have used 5 full litres of brand new fluid there are NO air bubbles at all and the fluid is clean !!!!! I am sure there is nothing else regarding the bleeding that can be done !!!!!!! So I am left with a pedal that hits the floor on the first push followed by a pedal that gets harder when pumped !!!!! Then foot off back on then it goes to the floor again !!!! What do I do guys any help or advice please ?? Regards Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 out of curiosity, what wheel did you start bleeding first?? i assume you started furthest from the master cylinder? not sure about LR' but hte calipers fitted in correct side? so nipples are at the top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 certainly sounds like air, ofcourse if you havent touched anything, then air wouldnt magically just find its way in unless something has broken... If you pump it up and hold the pedal hard, does it stay still or creep to the floor? PS: catch the "waste" expelled fluid, and stick it thru a coffee filter and put it back in the other end. Theres no point chucking it away as at this point the stuff coming out is as fresh as the stuff going in the other end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 i would suggest you have one of 3 issues. 1 master cyl seals have failed allowing fluid to leak past. 2 a hole in a line. this wont be hard to find 3 a failed piston seal on a caliper. in that order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmuncher Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 Started with Rear passenger Rear drivers Front passenger Last of all front drivers Just checked once the pedal is pumped up if I hold the pressure on it does slowly creep to the floor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmuncher Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 I wouldn't say a hole in the line as I don't lose ANY fluid and I never top it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 PS: catch the "waste" expelled fluid, and stick it thru a coffee filter and put it back in the other end. Theres no point chucking it away as at this point the stuff coming out is as fresh as the stuff going in the other end! i agree, but obviously don't use old stuff as its hygroscopic. could it be a seal failure in side the master cylinder?? Started withRear passenger Rear drivers Front passenger Last of all front drivers ok, thats good, it's an easy mistake to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 from my 300tdi RAVE CD info, it states bleed right [drivers] front brake caliper first, see copy below highlighted orange my 200tdi manual say caliper nearest master cylinder first, then as above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmuncher Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 Should I replace the master cylinder first then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 or get a rebuild kit for it. im sure they are out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Check for leaks at the calipers, but if none found, then yes its likely the MC seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Had this before. It was the almost new master cylinder was faulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffernutter Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 In my case it was an adjuster on a rear drum causing the problem, nothing to do with the front brakes or bleeding at all! Could be a red herring though! Cheers Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmuncher Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 Many thanks puffer nutter I thought that could be a idea to however I have adjusted them perfectly so think I can rule that out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 try winding the adjuster right up, then see how the brakes feel,if the pedal still drops it's either the master cylinder or one of the rear slave cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmuncher Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 I will try that many thanks western great idea One question Am I right in thinking tho if either of the front capilers or the rear slaves were duff eg faulty seals surly they would be leaking fluid from some where surly that would be visible and I would have to keep topping up the master cylinder , is that correct guys ?? Which would then point to master wouldn't it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Yes, if the caliper or slave cylinder seals were leaking there would be evidence of fresh brake fluid, if the master cylinder was leaking across the piston seals you wouldn't see any fluid leak as it will be internal, if the rearmost master cylinder was leaking there should be leakage evidence visible at the servo/master cyl joint. it would be worth undoing the master cyl to servo nuts so the master cyl can be moved away from servo to see if there is any fluid leak at that joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Yes yes and yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Quick idea, clamp the hose to the rear axle, just to isolate the rear brakes then try the pedal, if no change it's something further forward, you could even try clamping the front hoses in turn . . But as above, I suspect mc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim1 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I had the same issue with my 110 I ended up changing the master cylinder 3 times then it was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 As suggested by disco ron clamp off each flexy hose in turn, doesn't really matter which order, to rear axle then each of the fronts. If the problem goes away when one is clamped then you know where the problem is. If you clamp off all three at once the pedal should be solid (possible a little leakage past one of the clamps but pretty solid) if it still goes down then it is definately the master cylinder. Sounds like a leak letting in a bit of air somewhere, with the system pumped up and pressure on the pedal if the pedal slowly goes down then there must be fluid going out somewhere, this should be visable eventually, I assume you have had to top up at some point?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 ok, thats good, it's an easy mistake to make. Go on then, tell me why..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 From the symptoms you've said I'd say it was your master bipassing. Bit of a pig if its been replaced relativly recently. If you can afford it I'd go for a total new unit, I think I picked up a New Lucas one for £60 of fleebay a few months ago. you'll be annoyed if its a scored barrell, no re-build kit can sort that. Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Go on then, tell me why..... not sure why the question? probably just to aggravate me.. but he had don't incorrectly anyway. apparently your suppose to start with closest to MC on a LR as it states here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 not sure why the question? probably just to aggravate me.. but he had don't incorrectly anyway. apparently your suppose to start with closest to MC on a LR as it states here. Because the list starts with rear passenger..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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