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Defender PTC Heater Upgrade


mickeyw

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Price is definitely a huge factor with this mod. The element itself is 20 delivered. Relay another 15. All in depending on how I fare out with brackets this will be reasonably cheap.

I spend the first 20 min each morning sitting in traffic with the engine just ticking over. This will be a huge improvement for me :)

Keep the pics coming! :)

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.... petrol eberspachers seem to be a rarer beast as well ... and I can't see Mickey pulling up at the diesel pump :P
No reason not to run a diesel model on red is there ;)
How many currents does the heater eat?

You'll definitely want the engine running, lol. I have a 120A alternator, so I don't expect a problem supplying enough currents.

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Ordered one of the timer relays with on and off and light. Can wire up a momentary on-off-on button that will keep current to the relay for 5 minutes and then stop. But I can also switch it off manually.

I hadn't considered timer relays, but I thought about running the switch circuit via the full speed fan setting, so only have it powered when on max heat/demist.

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No reason not to run a diesel model on red is there ;)

.....

Putting my Eberspacher nerd hat on ...... a lot of people have had trouble with running them on red, it's all perfectly legal but people have apparently had problems with them sooting up quickly on red.

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I hadn't considered timer relays, but I thought about running the switch circuit via the full speed fan setting, so only have it powered when on max heat/demist.

Have you thought of using a voltage sensitive relay to ensure it can only be switched on when the engine is running? Appologies if I have missed that bit

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Putting my Eberspacher nerd hat on ...... a lot of people have had trouble with running them on red, it's all perfectly legal but people have apparently had problems with them sooting up quickly on red.

Well I can't claim to be a diseasel expert, but I thought red just had a dye in it, nought else. I mean you wouldn't want to go clagging up agri engines etc.

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Have you thought of using a voltage sensitive relay to ensure it can only be switched on when the engine is running? Appologies if I have missed that bit

I have a VSR I could use. The other way is to run via the oil pressure switch.

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VSR will cause you nothing but grief for this job - I explained why in the other thread.

Unless you're in the habit of sitting with the ignition on and the engine not running (WHY?), just run the relay coil feed from ignition live, and don't forget a big bright idiot light on the dash.

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Here is why you need to remove the end of the box. Involves drilling out quite a few rivets.

post-7124-0-45408800-1365722088_thumb.jpg

I sawed through the pivot pin next to the spacer bush. The flap is welded to the pin.

post-7124-0-35318000-1365722107_thumb.jpg

post-7124-0-30781000-1365722123_thumb.jpg

As you can see the pin protrudes through the box a dairy way, but once cut its easy to remove.

post-7124-0-13219700-1365722136_thumb.jpg

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Would it not be ideal to keep the flap (disconnected obviously) and cut a hole for the heater element. I looks ideal to seal the gaps.

And I agree, VSRs have their place but this is not one of them. My thinking with the timer is the same as a snooze button really, you get another 5 minutes - and that's all you need.

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Errr yes, I now have the heater box refitted to the truck, but yet to complete the electrics. It's just typical the weather has now improved (not complaining) and the pressure to finish the job has relaxed :)

I've taken a good number of photos and started amending my drawings, next I need to post it all up on here.... Will try and do that soon.

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The biggest issue I have with mine is that despite having a 120A Alternator, with the engine idling it does not produce enough current to run the PTC.

The result is the Voltage Sensitive Relay switches in and out every few seconds. When it switches, it causes my headlights to dim a little - flashing bright - dim - bright etc.

Other road users think I'm flashing my lights at them - and often flash back.

I now switch it off close to road junctions - otherwise it causes dangerous confusion! If you increase the idle speed to about 1500rpm, the alternator generates enough and the problem vanishes. So you may need a fast idle switch to go with the PTC.

Other than that, it works quite well!

Si

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I'm still waiting for the bits to arrive in the post. But again as the weather has improved I'm not too pushed wither.

I'm also holding off until the drawings are perfected - and I'm hoping someone will start mass produciton of the brackets :D

Simon again pointed out why a VSR probably isn't the right tool for the job. Same reason you don't run VSRs on your winch circuit.

I'm going to wire mine up to the ignition straight with a timer relay. But I should mention I also run a second battery separated by a voltage sensing relay so even if the first circuit would run too low the starter battery will be separated from the main circuit and I would be able to start the car regardless. (Super handy when doing a lot of winching).

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I have got the PTC heater now and I had a quick look at it over the weekend.

Question around the brackets - I don't have access to a milling machine so I'm wondering are they really needed. It's obviously the more elegant solution but...

The side with the cabling has a rubber seal around it and if you were _really_ careful you could cut a very exact hole in the heater box so it would seal properly on that side. The problem then is the other side. I'm sure I could ghetto-fab something there to cover the hole :)

How hot does it get? can I use silicon to seal?

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Anyone looked into 3D printing for this kinda stuff?

I did - as I have a 3D Printer!

Then, the obvious struck me! The (my) printer works by melting the plastic - and only works on plastics with a low melting point (180-200C).

I was concerned that the printed fittings would turn to goo when the heater was on!

Si

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The 3D printer we have at work uses a liquid base material that is cured by UV light. It's very high accuracy and costs far more than my Landy! I don't know about the temperature handling of our system, but the components produced are relatively brittle, especially if there are areas with small protruding features. There are even more expensive machines that can print in more materials that offer more lifelike physical properties akin to polypropylene or acetal and others.

The type Si refers to are a lower resolution system that uses what IMO looks like garden strimmer wire :lol: and is within reach of the home enthusiast.

If you wanted to, you could make a mounting bracket from folder ally or steel. Look at how the original water heated matrix is secured.

My drawings aren't far off done :)

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The UV / liquid printers do offer higher resolution, but the parts are usually too brittle to be usable mechanically.

The 'Hot Glue' (melted ABS) printers despite the resolution, print objects which you can use for real - i've printed all kinds of fixings and even a planetary gearbox which runs nicely.

There are 'now hot' glue printers which come very close to the resolution of UV types and cost half what my machine did. I think, if you want parts you can use - they are the best option!

Si

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The top and bottom mounts are pretty simple, and only needed because the heater body is taller than the width of the heater box.

There's no great science or accuracy needed, and they won't actually get very hot - the PTC itself doesn't get 'very' hot, and it's insulated from its mounts by the plastic body caps.

In my case I made 2 mounts simply to get the heater element central in the airflow, and because it was a 'real' project for my 'toy' cnc mill.

Pretty simple to get rid of the top mount (as dantastic suggested above), and fold the bottom one from a piece of ali sheet. Either 'braze' up the corners with alu-weld, or block them with silly sealant or tigerseal etc., just to make it airtight.

Hard to make it much more 'ghetto' than the LR heater box design in my view!

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