90 Electrickery woes

[subseauk]

Hi

Bit of background -

I bought a Q plated 90 van a couple of years ago which was supposed to be ex-military ( turned out not to be ), with a Disco engine transplant. Anyway i wanted to convert from the van to a cab/pick-up which has been done along with completely treating the chasis with rust converter and a two part paint job which looks the business.

I have also tried to get everything as "standard" as possible for parts and to give me a base from which to start withe the new stuff etc which has resulted in two new axles fitted with ARBs which i have yet to plumb in.

I am currently having two main problems, wiring in and plumbing the new gear but first and foremost is the older wiring. The original as purchased wiring system had a weird split charge system fitted in the rear and a winch, the wiring of which would not have looked out of place with Bolognese sauce on it and to cap it off the installer had used mainly green & yellow household earth cable for everything!!!!!

The chassis loom was riddled with twisted together wires and earth problems so this was removed and replaced with a new ( later date landrover issue one ) which hopefully will work as it appears to match the older one but with slightly heavier duty wires of same colour.

My problem now is where the engine loom joins the bulkhead and into the dash panel ( which also does not appear to be a standard panel ).

There is also a mud stuff type centre console where the winch was wired and a clock fitted again all with earth type cabling so a complete bitch to trace etc

Is there any one in the Portsmouth area who is knowledgeable with regards to the landrover electrics that can possible spare some time to help or give some pointers on how to tidy up and get the wiring back to some semblance of normality. i just want to get the vehicle running for an MOT, the rest of things like the winch, split charge and ARB compressor will be done at leisure later.

I have photos which may help in showing what i am up against.

As you can see there is the glow plug timer on the bulkhead and what i believe is the starter relay to the left. As no "standard" colouring wire was used i am struggling to sort out what goes where etc.

Any help or advice greatly appreciated with beer tokens to actual assist!!!

Cheers

Kev

[western]

If it was mine Kev, I would remove that chopped about loom & get a replacement Autosparks loom, I put a dash/main loom in my 110 a few years ago,

the normal start relay position is behind the fusebox metal panel, along with the brake & headlight relays.

engine to main loom joints if different connectors, it might be a good move to replace these with common connectors for a easier life,

[subseauk]

Hi Ralph

I had thought about that and contacted Autosparks who were not at all helpful. Woman said they could not help if i could not give chassis number etc ( Q-Plate ) so gave up after that. Also seemed to throw her with the Disco engine conversion etc.

At this point i'd be happy to purchase but want to make sure i am not buying something that won't be suitable etc

Any other thoughts??

[western]

there are drop menu's within each link to choose what you want http://www.autosparks.co.uk/index.php?cPath=59_75_114

have you got rear wash/wipe & rear heated screen there are different looms for these options in the main/dash loom & the chassis loom,

VIN codes starting JA to LA are 200tdi any prior to LA is diesel or petrol earlier vehicles.

MA on is 300tdi [different connectors to 200tdi & previous models]

their website has been updated since I bought my main loom, seems to have options on additional links at bottom of the page,

other option is remove a complete loom from a damaged vehicle or build your own using the correct colour code wires & connectors of your choice.

[landroversforever]

Hi Ralph

I had thought about that and contacted Autosparks who were not at all helpful. Woman said they could not help if i could not give chassis number etc ( Q-Plate ) so gave up after that. Also seemed to throw her with the Disco engine conversion etc.

At this point i'd be happy to purchase but want to make sure i am not buying something that won't be suitable etc

Any other thoughts??

I have a disco engine in mine and I've ordered new looms. Mine is a similar state, so I've gone for the full re-wire! Then I have a known-good standard loom to work from and add all the extras separately.

Send an email to help@autosparks.co.uk instead. I must have sent 10 emails back and forth with a lovely chap called Paul who sorted me out with what I needed.

If you're ordering a whole set of looms, then just order for a 200tdi. Get someone with a tdi to give you the relevant bits of the VIN number and Autosparks will help you out .

[subseauk]

there are drop menu's within each link to choose what you want http://www.autosparks.co.uk/index.php?cPath=59_75_114

have you got rear wash/wipe & rear heated screen there are different looms for these options in the main/dash loom & the chassis loom,

VIN codes starting JA to LA are 200tdi any prior to LA is diesel or petrol earlier vehicles.

MA on is 300tdi [different connectors to 200tdi & previous models]

their website has been updated since I bought my main loom, seems to have options on additional links at bottom of the page,

other option is remove a complete loom from a damaged vehicle or build your own using the correct colour code wires & connectors of your choice.

Hi Ralph

As i said mate Vin numbers are no help with Q plate as they don't seem to refer to anything as per usual so that cant help.

cheers

[subseauk]

I have a disco engine in mine and I've ordered new looms. Mine is a similar state, so I've gone for the full re-wire! Then I have a known-good standard loom to work from and add all the extras separately.

Send an email to help@autosparks.co.uk instead. I must have sent 10 emails back and forth with a lovely chap called Paul who sorted me out with what I needed.

If you're ordering a whole set of looms, then just order for a 200tdi. Get someone with a tdi to give you the relevant bits of the VIN number and Autosparks will help you out .

I'll give them another go but not expecting that much going by previous contact!

cheers

[Eightpot]

The wiring there all looks quite home-made. If i were mine I would look for a good used main harness, with the blade type fuses from a 200tdi defender, possibly 300TDi though not if it has alarm spider/ecu etc and definitely not TD5

If the engine harness is in the same state, you can use any pre TD5 diesel harness with very little modification, maybe just change terminals for the alternator.

I would then just start removing your main harness, every bit of non standard wire, anything scotchlocked on etc, put the new harness in and away you go.

It's not to difficult to change the harness, they look like a mass of tangled hair when you put them on the floor, but straighten it out and it gets fairly self explanatory where you need to thread the strands.

[landroversforever]

Hi Ralph

As i said mate Vin numbers are no help with Q plate as they don't seem to refer to anything as per usual so that cant help.

cheers

They are.... all the VIN numbers give Autosparks is which engine is fitted, the rest of the differences are subtle. As long as you guy a compatible set from them (they can advise) you will be fine.

Mine might as well have been a Q plate with all the questions I asked. But don't email the sales team, go for the technical guys

[subseauk]

Thanks guys

[subseauk]

As a thought does anyone recognise the actual instrument panel incase i can get the loom made to suit or get a new panel??

cheers

[landroversforever]

The main instrument cluster is the standard Land Rover one . The wiring for which is the same upto about 98 I believe!

[subseauk]

I have a disco engine in mine and I've ordered new looms. Mine is a similar state, so I've gone for the full re-wire! Then I have a known-good standard loom to work from and add all the extras separately.

Send an email to help@autosparks.co.uk instead. I must have sent 10 emails back and forth with a lovely chap called Paul who sorted me out with what I needed.

If you're ordering a whole set of looms, then just order for a 200tdi. Get someone with a tdi to give you the relevant bits of the VIN number and Autosparks will help you out .

Hi Ross

I've just been onto Autosparks and hit the same wall ( vin numbers etc ) to start with.

After speaking to the woman for 10 mins ( despite asking for a tech ) we finally managed to get her to agree they could supply a complete harness for a late 200tdi once i get the alternator output confirmed but then she said i still might have to do some adapting!!!!

As this is where i am at with the vehicle anyway it seems a bit pointless paying out £400+ and then having to cut & splice wires when i don't know what goes where etc ( sad i know but i openly admit to not being an electric type person when it comes to cars ).

The engine bay does not look that difficult to be honest, with only the following as far as i can see:

alternator has medium brown feed to battery, couple of sensor wires (thin) going to loom, and two medium size brown wires going to loom

starter motor has big red wire to battery, couple of others going to the glow plug timer unit

4 wires which were homemade been & yellow cables to the starter relay

single cables & earth to the water temp, fuel cut off, oil pressure/level?

seperate thin cables to the fuel tank, reverse switch and diff lock under cab.

and the glow plug loom.

the biggest problem is where this loom connects to the bulkhead loom and where that goes inside the cab and behind the instrument console.

what do you reckon?

Do you have any details on your install??

cheers

Kev

[subseauk]

Made progress today on front lights, horn, washer pump and heater fan.

Still got to work out rear lights and engine side of things but more optimistic than before!!

Will be running earths back to battery for as much as possible to negate old loom issues.

Might be looking for some help with the engine wiring later.

If the instrument dash is standard why would it have 24v indicator?

Sorry if that's a dim question LoL

Cheers

[western]

24v warning light was for 24v military vehicles, on my old dash I used that as my 2nd [winch] battery energised warning light.

I didn't mean use your VIN but one from a genuine 200tdi vehicle so you get the looms you want, my 110 was a TD the loom connections are big rubber plugs/sockets, I think the 200tdi vehicles used the same [TD & 200tdi engine loom is the same] connectors as mine, 300tdi on use a different type throuhout the loom. [econoseal IIRC]

[subseauk]

cheers Ralph

crossed wires on the VIN reference on my part i think.

are the Dico and 90 TDi the same then?

The turbo on mine is at the bottom so i am not sure whether this is the 200 or 300 version!!

rgds

Kev

[western]

basic engine is, alternator connections might vary but that can easily be overcome, my old TD loom ihas been running my 200tdi since mid '94 without any problems.

Disco 200tdi & all 300tdi have the turbo low down, only the Def 200 had it high up [as on my engine]

[landroversforever]

Hi Ross

I've just been onto Autosparks and hit the same wall ( vin numbers etc ) to start with.

After speaking to the woman for 10 mins ( despite asking for a tech ) we finally managed to get her to agree they could supply a complete harness for a late 200tdi once i get the alternator output confirmed but then she said i still might have to do some adapting!!!!

As this is where i am at with the vehicle anyway it seems a bit pointless paying out £400+ and then having to cut & splice wires when i don't know what goes where etc ( sad i know but i openly admit to not being an electric type person when it comes to cars ).

The engine bay does not look that difficult to be honest, with only the following as far as i can see:

alternator has medium brown feed to battery, couple of sensor wires (thin) going to loom, and two medium size brown wires going to loom

starter motor has big red wire to battery, couple of others going to the glow plug timer unit

4 wires which were homemade been & yellow cables to the starter relay

single cables & earth to the water temp, fuel cut off, oil pressure/level?

seperate thin cables to the fuel tank, reverse switch and diff lock under cab.

and the glow plug loom.

the biggest problem is where this loom connects to the bulkhead loom and where that goes inside the cab and behind the instrument console.

what do you reckon?

Do you have any details on your install??

cheers

Kev

I'm afraid I'm not 100% sure what you're asking, however this could be my lack of sleep!

No details on my install yet, my looms aren't due until near the end of this month. I'll be learning allllllll about it when I come to strip the current one off.

[western]

alternator should have

plain brown to starter solenoid

brown/yellow trace to 'no charge' warning light on instrument panel

plain brown to/from battery pos [+] terminal battery

[subseauk]

Cheers Ralph

i've identified the glow plug timer unit but not sure about the relay that is adjacent to it in the photo attached. Any thoughts? ( might be something to do with old winch wiring to Mud Dash console switches ).

Also not sure what the boxes are on the fuse pannel, i found and changed the indicator one for a new RDX unit to go with the LED light upgrade and those all work now ( just got to permanently fit new plug/sockets to cables ).

All that seems to be left to do is the fuel tank sensor cable, the difflock and the starting circuit.

Rgds

Kev

[western]

Standard 90/110 wires

difflock wire should be black/blue tracer single wire, the earth is from difflock switch to difflock mechanism housing bolt plain black wire,

fuel gauge sender wire is green/black trace, low fuel warning [if fitted] wire is white/slate [grey] trace & plain black earth.

don't know what the small relay next to glowplug timer is for, where does it's wires go to ??

[subseauk]

Hi Ralph

small relay wires go no where \!!!!

it had some of those horrible earth ( green & Yellow ) cables attached which went behind the dash but which some helpful chap had disconnected before i saw the dash end and he never made a note !!! I suspect they were associated with the winch. I remembered to attach a photo this time Doh!!!

cheers for the other cable colour info.

Do you know what the other relay / switch units are that are fitted to the fuse box ( 3 green and 2 yellow i think) below fuses and 2 mounted behind the fuse frame ? i know one on the frame is the indicators but not sure about the others.

Been up in Humberside at the weekend so will be over and back onto the motor tomorrow. Will let you know how it goes.

getting there

[western]

what model/engine did the dash/fusebox originate from ?

of the yellow relays one will be the start relay = brown & white/red trace wires

one will be headlight relay

one brake check [if no low brake fluid float cap fitted to brake master cylinder]

not sure one the green relays so need to know the origin of the loom as above

[subseauk]

Thats the only real problem with a Q plate Ralph ( especially if your a complete plank like me when it comes to recognising stuff ).

Good news is i got the fuel sender/gauge to work and the difflock warning lamp so making progress still.

Drained the engine oil whilst working on the 'lectrics ready for a filter change, will be doing the fuel filter as well.

Once they're done i will connect up the glow plug timer thingy and the alternator to battery and see what occurs.

There is a wire with a spade type connector on it in the back of the alternator that does not appear to have been connected but seems odd to leave it with bare metal connector floating about, any ideas???

Rgds

Kev

[western]

if it's a plain black & goes to a little black supressor or choke/surge protection thing, like mine lower centre

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/western214h/IMG_1215.jpg

or if you have a rev counter then it goes to the alternators W terminal, or it might be anothe previous owner add on. which is no longer needed. best to see what it goes to before any reconnection.

once your all electified pull all the yellow & green relays & see what doesn't operate, refit each one & check then label them, a permanent marker will do.