Shackleton Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Wow - I've been/am on a few other forums (with good people) but the technical stuff here is second to none, right down to the photo documented step by step guides posted by folk! I love this place... I've a '73 RR, it's the biz, it's like a mountain goat. All original, twin strombergs on the 3.5, LT95 etc. I bought a scrapper 1990 3.9 as a donor and I've gotten to the point that tomorrow I'll route the wiring for the new motor, do some last bits of cleaning and painting and I'm ready to pull the 3.5 and offer up the 3.9. Apart from having major 11th hour jitters about whether I'm doing the right thing going ECU controlled (I've done all my sums and reckon that with the weight difference and the o/d that I'm putting on I should get about 20mpg) I have two main questions for anyone with any experience in the area... 1. My mech tells me that basically if I connect the white ECU wire to my ignition switch and basically earth the earth that I just need to use the existing wiring to the alternator/starter etc to get the thing running. (this is all considering that I've stripped all the relevant fuel pump/injector loom with the ECU) God that doesn't make sense does it... 2. I'm not interested in the power steering fitted to the 3.9, I'd much prefer to keep the few hp that the pump would have soaked up. So I've dumped the pump. I'm going to mount the alternator on the opposite side of the waterpump and run it from the w/p pully as its only slightly bigger then the p/s pump pully. But now I'm wondering whether that few mill of difference in the pully is gonna burn out the alternator or have any other adverse effect??? I'm George by the way, hi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO3528 Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Hi George, welcome to the forum. I think I've seen you on LRUK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Welcome You'll also need the high pressure Fuel pump as the carb pump won't do it ! The 3,9 also uses the ECU to trigger the fuel pump, from memory there are 3 wires you will need the connect plus the earths, cannot exactly remember what the colours are as its prob 15 years ago since I last connected them up - but I have thenm somewhere if no-one else posts up From the deep memory you'll need from the EFI wiring loom, connect the fuel pump main power and switched ignition ?and also the earths Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted September 23, 2006 Author Share Posted September 23, 2006 Deano - yeah I recognise that prancing pony... but it has to be from either lrnet or one of the Irish sites? Nige, cheers! - what I did was strip the whole loom in one piece from the 1990. Then I poured my weak little mind over the schematics and eventaully pulled the injection related loom out of the rest of the wiring so I have everything right down to the ECU warning lamp feed. I'm wondering about the wiring between the engine bay side of the bulkhead and the starter/alternator/coil etc. Apart from the harness for the injectors/thermistors etc most of the EFI wiring is actually inside or to the rear of the car. Of that 'inside' wiring (and apart from the fuel pump and earthing) to get the lump running all I have to do is connect the single white wire to the ignition second position (now I've powered the ECU and hence fuel pump). The other wiring leading from the ignition is the original stuff from the carb lump. That goes through the bulkhead into th engine bay and connects to the Alternator/starter/coil etc. So if I just pull the 3.5 along with its alt/start/coil and throw in the 3.9 and use that old wiring to connect to the 3.9's alt/start/coil am I in business? Its a question mark of epic proportions. My friendly local LR specialist looked at the stripped loom I have and told me the above. I tend to second guess him as although he really knows his stuff he can sometime. not concentrate hard enough. Thanks for the welcome guys - I'm off to buy some blue hylomar and a rivet gun and get dirty... Oh and I posted a few pics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 Gosh that '73 looks tidy. You must be well proud of it. Very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 I'm in love with it, it's tidy but by no means perfect - but I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't want to be scared to use it y'know... The rust has been all taken care of. There's some dodgy filling in the rear frame but I'm happy while it's not rusting and the insides of the doors are basically dead, but again for now they look smart - it looks well and the cosmetic stuff can wait. The chassis is perfect. Its all there bar the badge lettering. The front is in tact bar the N which can't be got anymore so if anyone has an old N lying about... and they've used the later silver edged lettering on the tailgate which annoys me but I've to ry source some letters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Simpkins Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I'm in love with it, it's tidy but by no means perfect - but I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't want to be scared to use it y'know...The rust has been all taken care of. There's some dodgy filling in the rear frame but I'm happy while it's not rusting and the insides of the doors are basically dead, but again for now they look smart - it looks well and the cosmetic stuff can wait. The chassis is perfect. Its all there bar the badge lettering. The front is in tact bar the N which can't be got anymore so if anyone has an old N lying about... and they've used the later silver edged lettering on the tailgate which annoys me but I've to ry source some letters. You can normally find sets of raised lettering at Old Sodbury if you look hard enough. I managed to pick up a complete set for mine for £2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Just googled Old Sodbury - never heard of it before! Looks brilliant. Pity theres about 300 miles and the Irish Sea between me an it so if I found a pair they'd cost me about €302 Good to know about the meet though... oh and lovin your RR, looks the biz - making me wonder whether I'll white up my tyre lettering or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Simpkins Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Just googled Old Sodbury - never heard of it before!Looks brilliant. Pity theres about 300 miles and the Irish Sea between me an it so if I found a pair they'd cost me about €302 Good to know about the meet though... oh and lovin your RR, looks the biz - making me wonder whether I'll white up my tyre lettering or not Thanks. The tyre lettering was like that when I bought it, not how it would have been originally, but I like it! I should be going to the next Old Sodbury, I could keep an eye out for a set of lettering for you if you like? Postage should be reasonable as the letters are only made of plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 If you'd do that I'll camp outside your house and tell passers by all about you. You'll gradually gain notoriety, people will begin to worship you. Then once you have a strong following you can have people do your bidding and your wildest dreams will become reality. Seriously though I can send you a few quid in the post - I'd really really appreciate it. Wait a minute, how do I know you won't keep them for yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 This may help (apologies for bigness!): And, from my my (needing an update) website, when I did it this is how: The wiring you should leave as-is, it eventually comes out on a white 7-way connector, most of the wires you don't need to worry about, but you need to connect the following:Brown :: Battery + (Permanent Live, big wire ~3mmsq) White :: Switched 12v from ignition (on when engine running) White / Purple :: Fuel pump supply (There's a relay in the EFi wiring loom already, or there should be...) White / Red :: Start / Reset, to the starter motor solenoid feed, on when cranking. (Not strictly needed) White / Black or White / Blue :: To ignition amplifier TACH feed (if you have one) or -ve side of ignition coil Black :: There are several earths on the loom with tags, they MUST be bolted to a good earth. Then, when it doesn't work, throw it over your shoulder and fit MegaSquirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 Sweet FF, thanks mate. That schematic will be a great help - the newest Haynes manual doesn't seem to have a schematic for the spec of my machine. It's a '90 3.9 EFI but without lambdas etc. More so the wiring description - it confirms what my wrench told me and answers my original Q about whether I can use whats there already! Cheers again, think I'll pull the 3.5 this weekend. Now for an anti rain dance... Oh whats Megasquirt btw? I keep seeing the name but get the impression its an older ECU/injection type? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 It's DIY EFI, have a trundle through the tech archive there are a few posts in there... Older - hell no, makes the lucas look like a 30-year old lash up... oh, hang on, it is! Quite a lengthy discussion on the pros and cons of various things EFi MSEFi PCB and Firmware versions And, from the MegaSquirt forums: My latest success - MegaSquirt in a 14CU box, drop-in replacement for stock ECU V8 Hilux I MegaSquirted Squirting my 109 3.9 V8 Squirting Dan (V8Bertha)'s Range Rover My MegaView digital dash You also have SimonR, Geoff Beaumont, Nige Barker and Jon White here either running MS or MJ + EDIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 by gumbo FF you really are Megaman... I had a read of a few of those, I'm still kinda at a loss as to whether MS is something I expressly need to do or something that is a good mod but not necessary? As in is there a global prob with the hotwire that I should pre empt with MS or does MS just give me scope for tuning etc? Please say I can go MS when I've renewed energy and enthusiasm EDIT: just say "it's cool honeybunny" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Upgrading to MS is very doable at any point, I don't think you can quite fit one into a 14CUX case, but it's being looked at with a modified MicroSquirt as we speak... I suppose it depends on what you think of the stock EFi - it's better than carbs, and the hotwire is better than flapper in some aspects, but they're both very dated systems and of course not tunable / easily diagnosed. When faced with a dead RR EFi setup, the traditional saying is "It'd be quicker to fit MegaSquirt than sort that out" and so far it's been proved right at least 3 times... (Proto MS on a RR, Dan's MS and RR Hot Rod) As for global prob - the airflow meters are delicate, the system needs certain things to be right before it will work properly (calibrated throttle potentiometer for example) and if it throws a huff you pretty much have to throw the ECU or AFM over your shoulder and buy a new one... And you can't do this: B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Upgrading to MS is very doable at any point, I don't think you can quite fit one into a 14CUX case, but it's being looked at with a modified MicroSquirt as we speak... Hmm, I still reckon the full size one can be made to fit. I'll report back on that in the next few weeks once we've tried it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 wtf! it's all very doable he says as he posts a pic of a modded dash with some kind of sine machine hovering in the background. Do the little orange buttons let you tweek mapping on the go? Err thee most important Q: How much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 wtf! it's all very doable he says as he posts a pic of a modded dash with some kind of sine machine hovering in the background.Do the little orange buttons let you tweek mapping on the go? Err thee most important Q: How much? That is Top Secret Dave's lounge and that's a MegaView digital dash. You don't need an oscilloscope to build a MS, and you can buy them ready built - from me if you so wish, or from Bill Shurvinton. Would you feel more comfortable with a MegaView in a tupperware box and a Maplins £2.99 multimeter: Yes, you can tweak on the go with the MegaView but you'd have to be very determined to tune the fuel map with it. It's handy for seeing what's going on and changing things like Lambda sensor tuning, plus it looks cool B) All you really need is a MegaSquirt: A wiring tail to make life easier/neater: The MegaSquirt Firmware with the Rover V8 temperature sensor values in it, and Dan's fuel map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Simpkins Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 If you'd do that I'll camp outside your house and tell passers by all about you. You'll gradually gain notoriety, people will begin to worship you. Then once you have a strong following you can have people do your bidding and your wildest dreams will become reality.Seriously though I can send you a few quid in the post - I'd really really appreciate it. Wait a minute, how do I know you won't keep them for yourself OK, I'll keep an eye out for a set. I won't be keeping them as I have a full set on the Range Rover already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gn3dr Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Just googled Old Sodbury - never heard of it before!Looks brilliant. Pity theres about 300 miles and the Irish Sea between me an it so if I found a pair they'd cost me about €302 Good to know about the meet though... oh and lovin your RR, looks the biz - making me wonder whether I'll white up my tyre lettering or not Where in Ireland are you located? I've a '73 as well in Ireland and my plan is to fit the EFI hardware but fit Megasquirt instead of the original electronics. I've been looking for a cheap source for the EFI hardware but anything on E-Bay seems to go for more than I'd buy a whole Range Rover for (which I would do but - getting it back to Ireland is always the issue) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I tend to stock up on EFi at Sodbury as most of the sellers still seem to rip it off in horror and convert to clockwork, I never pay more than £20 for a complete setup (everything bar ECU & EFM). Long may it continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Where in Ireland are you located? I've a '73 as well in Ireland and my plan is to fit the EFI hardware but fit Megasquirt instead of the original electronics. I've been looking for a cheap source for the EFI hardware You can find me between Meath and Dublin. I bought a whole RR about 2 months ago for €650. It's a must I reckon as you need the fuel tank (its a pressurised system as opposed to the non pressurised one on the early cars) and then you need all the hardware as you say and the injector loom and blah blah blah. Once I started stripping the bits I realised I'd have a pain in the arse trying to source everything for a decent price in Ireland. I was lucky to find a scrapper / such a cheap vehicle though. I literally rang every breakers and it was a very hazy lead that found me this one. Guys were quoting me €400 for just a 3.9 lump!!! I know where all the Dublin / Wicklow based guys are and I also found a fella in Tipp who might be able to help you. You know what its like here though - nothings cheap. Speaking of which you don't know anyone who wants a '90 rolling chassis on Vogue alloys with a ZF 4 speed, some panels, all glass and some other bits in tact like window motors? €300 I'll PM you a few numbers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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