tacr2man Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 The plan Remove 3.9i V8 from 110 , and fit BMW m57 3L TD (similar to L322 ) , been done before I know , the difficult? part I want to retain my LT85 ( only done 2000miles since Ashcroft rebuild) . The Jeremy Fearn adapter is for a R380 (as fitted behind 300tdi) . , so the big question is could I use a R380 bell housing , and modify it to bolt to front of a Lt85 , say by making a ali plate for the front of a lt85 and cutting the rear part off the r380 bell housing and welding the new plate on ? I guess it would also need to mod the lt85 input shaft ? I have a lt85 so dimensions for that can be obtained , but dont have a R380 bell housing available , but would think (hope its shorter) as the M57 will most likely need to sit a bit closer to the bulkhead than the V8 . answers / suggestions please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 the bellhousing is cast ali, so unless you have means of ali welding its not straight forwards, although the LT85 santana? gearbox IIRC has the same stud pattern as the LT77 lan d rover box. which is only a few studs out of alignment when comparing to the R380 box, try offering the box up to the conversion plate and its probably a case of drilling and tapping it to take the rest of the studs in the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Why not just make an adapter plate to take the BMW to rover v8? The bellhousing pattern it quite a bit smaller on the BMW than the rv8 so it could probably be a simple 25mm thick alloy plate job. Another option could be to use the front half of a BMW getrag and have it built into the rear half of a puma defender getrag box? I am not fully certain that they are the same box but they certainly look very similar, its something I have been considering to get a lt230 behind an om606. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 Did think about the BMW to Lt85 adapter route , but no one seems to have done it , thought maybe Lt85 bellhousing is a bit too long to hang a M57 off the front in a 110 without moving box back, which i definately dont want to do . Just trying to get a few answers prior to pulling the V8 out so it speeds things up , I did a V8 into a 88 back in late 70's , also a 3.8 leyland diesel in a 109 just before that , and its the development that takes the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 I think the simplest approach would be to use an R380 from a P38, and either swap the input shaft and bellhousing onto a defender box, or swap the defender shifter mech onto a P38 R380. That way you get a nice factory combination that bolts right up to the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Did think about the BMW to Lt85 adapter route , but no one seems to have done it , thought maybe Lt85 bellhousing is a bit too long to hang a M57 off the front in a 110 without moving box back, which i definately dont want to do . Just trying to get a few answers prior to pulling the V8 out so it speeds things up , I did a V8 into a 88 back in late 70's , also a 3.8 leyland diesel in a 109 just before that , and its the development that takes the time All development work costs more time and money than you expect. The m57 is a fairly short engine for a 6 pot, do you have the dimensions for one? i'd think they'd only be a ffew inches longer than the rover v8. Just because no one has gone down the route before it wouldn't put me off. i made an adapter from rover v8 engine to merc 5 speed out of a v8-series adapter plate that i bought as a blank from conversion and precision, it was actually quite easy. you could do with offering v8 bellhousing up to the bmw lump and see how far out it is, i can see about offering an lt85 bellhousing up to the back of an m20 or m51 i don't have any m57, if i get chance i'll take some pics over the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 All development work costs more time and money than you expect.The m57 is a fairly short engine for a 6 pot, do you have the dimensions for one? i'd think they'd only be a ffew inches longer than the rover v8. Just because no one has gone down the route before it wouldn't put me off. i made an adapter from rover v8 engine to merc 5 speed out of a v8-series adapter plate that i bought as a blank from conversion and precision, it was actually quite easy. you could do with offering v8 bellhousing up to the bmw lump and see how far out it is, i can see about offering an lt85 bellhousing up to the back of an m20 or m51 i don't have any m57, if i get chance i'll take some pics over the weekend. Yes the M57 isnt hardly longer than the V8 its just that the JF kit uses an r380 adapter onto a M57 , probably as those were a more available gearbox , even landrover decided the LT85 was too expensive , first going to a splitcase and then the 380. A 380 from Ashcroft with the uprated bearing set up, and suffix k/l box is £805 plus vat if suffix J exchanged , seeing as how I had the LT85 rebuilt about 2000miles ago , theres a few £,s to play about with to adapt to the LT85, which i consider to be a better box anyhow . The 380 is reccomended to use an oil cooler as well in hard/hot usage (Kit £285 approx) which my santana has handled no problem in the past , including a bit of abuse (towing 54 ton and push starting road train ) to name a couple . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 I know the mechanical bit isn't 100% straightforward but is doubtless doable, but apart from using the Simtek ECU, how would one go about enabling the M57 electronically to run outside its natural habitat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Cackshifter, It depends on which age engine you get. Newer ones need fancy ecu's. Older ones (pre 2004 I think) just need the ecu and security unit 'fixing' by J Fearn. About £150 if I remebr right. Then a stipped out car loom, or a loom from rally raid UK. You want one with a DDE4 ECU for that. After that you need a fuel system and you good to go. However that means your using the stock air filter loation which is not water proof. So put air filter in a nice new filter housing then run an air inlet to engine. Only issue is airflow meter is in an oval housing - hard to put a hose on. So get a air flow meter housing off a vauxhaul 2.5 straight 6 diesel - it's the 2.5 liter version of the engine. Then put the M57 air flow meter element in the vauxhaul housing. Then you have nice round ends to put hoses on. Appartently you can get away with a thick TD5 intercooler to start with if your tight. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 You need to be very careful changing MAF housings, as the calibration of the sensor depends entirely on the cross sectional area of the housing. If the round omega housing has exactly the same area, then you should be ok, if it doesnt the readings coming out of the sensor will be scaled up or down in relation to the size difference, not what you want. The oval housing shouldnt really be an issue though, if you get a silicone hose of the right size it'll fit on just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted April 20, 2013 Author Share Posted April 20, 2013 The Fearn ecu mod is £250 (inflation?) I have got the simpler ecu model , thanks for the vauxhall afm tip , intend using the V8 110 airfilter , as i already have the plumbing to go from that to a donaldson on the roof rack (snorkle +) . I am considering having a go at the ecu thing myself , as i sorted a 300tdi edc auto to work in my 90 and retained the fly by wire throttle and the immobiliser function , and bypassed the alarm . havent quite decided on the intercooler yet (£400) , as that means a td5 rad as well , and I have a perfectly good HD australian built V8 rad in there at the moment , theres a few possible truck intercoolers that look promising for almost scrap money . Can you have too big an intercooler ? turbo lag? . Any one any experience on using the efi V8 intank pump as the primary and then the inline booster (as in TD4) ? for the diesel , as I know the filter housing has a pressure sensor and to need that tripped to get the thing to run ( same as freelander td4) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 In real terms no, you cant have "too big" an intercooler. I fitted one 3 times the size of the factory item to the wifes car and it made no difference to lag at all. You might find the EFI in tank pump will be fine on its own. Folk have run TD5's using an EFI pump and it works just fine. The M57 pre-supply pump appears to deliver around 4bar to the filter housing, which is the same as a TD5 expects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted April 20, 2013 Author Share Posted April 20, 2013 I see you went from Audi V8 to Td5 , were you not tempted with the BMW 6 power possibilities( and engine longevity) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Tempted sure, but a large driving force of the change was to get it finished and on the road. Theres enough to do with refurbishing everything else on the truck, and the engine swap was just going to eat up time/money and drag the whole thing out. Looking at the mountain of work required really disheartened me and the whole thing was just stalled. With the TD5 i just need to buy some standard bits and bolt it all in. Once its built up and on the road and i've spent some time actually driving it, i'll maybe revisit the alternative engine idea if i decide the TD5 isnt giving me what i want. Sticking with diesel i must admit the M57 is a very tempting option, but i guess you need to consider how much extra power/torque you're going to get, against the work required for the conversion as well as the additional lubrication and sealing issues that arise from putting a car derived engine into a land rover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted April 20, 2013 Author Share Posted April 20, 2013 i was reassured by the use of the M57 in the l322 ,do you know if they did many mods , for that usage ? There seem to be a few about in comp vehicles from what I have heard . I will be looking carefully at the engine once I get it out , before fitting, in areas like waterproofing etc . Had a good day , got the V8 out and exhaust front pipes off . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 As nice as the m57 is I feel its put into the dark by the merc om606 The merc can run fully mechanical no ecu's or sensors and has zero issues at all. My experience of the m57 is that they are a little over dependant on their sensors, injectors go down on them, they take quite a bit of keeping cool and the earlier crankcase breathers cause oil consumption and blue smoking. Other than servicing I've never had to do anything to a 606, not as many of them about though! The 606 is a little more compact than the m57 and a lot less "busy". But given enough fuel and boost they will will reliably make Nige's v8 blush twice over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 As nice as the m57 is I feel its put into the dark by the merc om606The merc can run fully mechanical no ecu's or sensors and has zero issues at all. My experience of the m57 is that they are a little over dependant on their sensors, injectors go down on them, they take quite a bit of keeping cool and the earlier crankcase breathers cause oil consumption and blue smoking. Other than servicing I've never had to do anything to a 606, not as many of them about though! The 606 is a little more compact than the m57 and a lot less "busy". But given enough fuel and boost they will will reliably make Nige's v8 blush twice over. anyone do an adapter to bolt up to a Lt85? I take it you are talking the 606.96 version ? dont these have an glowplug seizing problem black death? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Mines a 606.962, I'm going another way on the conversion, I'm using the merc 6 speed manual box with either an adapter directly to a lt230 or i'll close couple it to a divorced lt230 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLineMike Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 talking of merc diesels..... i think DD might be onto something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 No dyno sheet = it never happened. From what I've read the only thing they've changed internally is the valve springs, there's a dyno sheet somewhere on STD for 680hp@3.5bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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